Minister floating scrappage scheme?

Are You Eamon Ryan?

They’re are plenty of older Leafs around but they are worth sfa, ie have suffered massive depn and no one in their right mind would pay more than a couple of grand for them due to concerns around range and battery issues.
TBH battery warranty is the biggest concern people have with used EVs. Plenty people on here and elsewhere have referenced they wouldn’t buy an out of warranty EV and would get rid of their EV before it got close to the warranty expiry due to the significant hit on price.

This may be irrational to some but it’s a reality at this point in time. I wonder how many people who say warranty issues are largely a thing of the past would shell out decent money on an out of warranty EV ?

I’ve said a number of times on this forum that if EVs are the be all and end all that many are saying they are, then it shouldn’t be an issue to extend battery warranties well beyond the current limits of years/kms- what I think is the real reason, is that manufacturers don’t want to be lumped with this issue in any way as the technology will have moved on -maybe a guaranteed minimum value of the car to be paid if complete battery failure (to be defined) or similar could be in place for cars between 5-8 years .

EVs aren’t just about or shouldn’t be just about taking ICE off the roads- it should be about promoting cars with much more longevity - easily replaceable parts etc to keep these cars on the road as long as possible and to reduce new car manufacturing .

What it’s actually looking like is completely defunct cars in less than 10 years that are unserviceable or not worth the cost of repair - we have to address this issue too- otherwise EVs will be more damaging not less, to the planet

The only thing increasing the taxes on ICE cars will do is make the poorer in society even more poor. The same way that incentivizing new diesel cars did back in 2008, those who couldn't afford to trade up ended up with bigger motor tax bills. That applies to both rural and urban dwellers.

I would consider my situation very much middle class. I own a modest semi-detached home with my wife in a small Co. Cork village. The bus service to Cork city is very infrequent and therefore not suitable for commuting. Both of us have 3rd level degrees and have fairly well paid jobs well above the average industrial wage. We replaced my wife's 21 year old 3dr Corolla earlier this year due to the impending arrival of a baby and EV's didn't even enter the equation. The cost of installing a home charger and buying an EV with a decent warranty was way beyond our financial means. We spent €15k on an 8 year old petrol instead, which will cost us €1k in interest over 3 years. I did the sums and an EV would have cost us multiples over a 2nd hand ICE car in depreciation and borrowing interest even with the savings in fuel.

When it makes financial sense we will switch to EVs. It's on government to put the public transport infrastructure in place to reduce transport emissions, not private individuals buying EVs. Most of the buses in Cork are still diesel and belching black smoke into people's lungs in the city…..

Who do you think will be paying for their cars if this proposed scrappage subsidy goes through?

What makes you say that further increases in taxes aren't exactly what is needed to make the push work in the future?

eCargo bikes are remarkably sustainable and remarkably stable in all kinds of weather, given that they have three wheels. They are commonplace in Netherlands and Denmark, much colder than here. They're probably less likely to skid on ice here than your average car, and far less likely to do serious damage if they do skid.

Who do you think will be paying for their cars if this proposed scrappage subsidy goes through?

They will be paying for their own cars, unless you're making a very generous offer…

What makes you say that further increases in taxes aren't exactly what is needed to make the push work in the future?

Because it hasn't worked in the past, why would it work in the future?

eCargo bikes are remarkably sustainable and remarkably stable in all kinds of weather, given that they have three wheels. They are commonplace in Netherlands and Denmark, much colder than here. They're probably less likely to skid on ice here than your average car, and far less likely to do serious damage if they do skid.

Colder in the Netherlands and Denmark, sure. Do they also see the same rainfall and have the same quality rural roads as we do? Do they still cycle everywhere the odd time they get Irish style weather? Somehow I think not...

If they're buying EVs today, they're not paying for their own cars. This proposal is to extend the subsidies even further.

Huh? They're buying them but not paying for them? Are you aware that subsidies make the cars cheaper, not free, you still have to pay for them.

It hasn't worked enough in the past because the taxes on ICE weren't high enough to nudge people over to EVs obviously.

There's nothing obvious about this at all!

People cycle in the rain everywhere, Ireland and NL and DK. Rain doesn't make bikes unstable, and particularly not cargo bikes.

Yes but is it a good idea to be cycling everywhere in the rain?

They're not free, but they're subsidised - so they're not paying the full market price for their vehicles. And this proposal is to make that subsidy even higher.

Are you saying that there's no level of ICE taxes that would encourage more people to switch to EVs?

It's a great idea. It reduces traffic congestion, improves public health, and reduces harm to the environment. NL has the happiest and healthiest teens in the world. What's not to like?

Corsa short range, lost 55% of its value, private seller because the trade in would be worse,

The Kona, 38k new, cheapest normal mileage 17000 granted long range, but a better buy would have been the petrol 22000 new, cheapest now 17000 or hybrid 29000 new, cheapest 20000

Dacia is grand, as long as you never go outside the m50, 110 km motor way range in winter conditions,

The inster is nearly worse as only there are only 4 seats.

I find it laughable that people insist others drive cars like those, I would have the 8 year old petrol car all day long if there was no hybrid or plug in options.

are you reading what almostover says? With the baby in the plans your tiny inster will be no good. If you bought one and happy with it in Dublin don’t push it onto everyone

What kind of baby do you think they're having?

I'm not insisting anybody drive anything but if I had €15k to spend on a car I certainly wouldn't be going for an 8 year old petrol when I can get a 3-5 year old EV for the same price and I'd imagine most would be in the same boat.

Depreciation shouldn't really bother people, you could very easily find an ICE depreciating rapidly if the conditions were to allow for it. Like every car there's better value all around in private sales

Corsa is too small for 2 children and a dog.

Kona may barely be large enough. But that's a private sale with zero warranty. Too risky.

What is the delivery time for a new Dacia Spring? The base model only has 45hp, akin to something like a 1970s VW beetle. The next model up is only 65hp and 30kW. Only suitable for shorter journeys.

Again if you read my post, we wanted something that wouldn't need to be upgraded if we had a 2nd child. Also needs space for the dog. So a car big enough for 2 adults, 2 children and a dog. With enough range for rural use. For <€20k. With some warranty coverage on the batteries. And include the charger installation in that €20k budget. Such an EV currently does not exist. If it did we'd have bought it.

The point I'm trying to get across is that a large cohort of Irish motorists do not have the financial means to buy EVs in the current economic climate. And taxing their current ICEs more heavily will only reduce their ability to upgrade to EVs.

They weren't paying for their cars. They were availing of a subsidy. That's a simple fact.

Yes, we do need balance and care for unintended consequences, but it's good to see that you admit you were wrong to say that this wasn't a potential solution - excellent!

The cargo bike scrappage scheme works in London.

https://zeroemissionsnetwork.com/news/get-new-cargo-bike%C2%A0-%C2%A0tfl-scrappage-scheme-grant

But let me guess, that's hugely different weather to Ireland too, right?