Minister floating scrappage scheme?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557097#Comment_123557097

So you didn't have the cash for a €13,750 Kona EV and another ~€1k for a home charger that would have cut your fuel bill by 75% but you did have the money for a €15k corolla, 3 years older and the same warranty of nothing on each?

Interesting maths there

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557160#Comment_123557160

Again ,please ready my posts thoroughly. The 21 year old corolla was being replaced. We didn't buy another to replace it. FYI we bought a Mazda CX-5.

My sister in law has a Kona. We deemed it too small as the main family car for 2 adults, 2 children, a dog and the bits for the kids. Where are there Kona EVs available for €13750, that have a long battery warranty and a good range remaining? Please show your workings......

Seems like EV fundamentalism correlates strongly with literacy issues.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557159#Comment_123557159

They weren't paying for their cars. They were availing of a subsidy. That's a simple fact.

You need to learn how subsidies work before posting here again I think

Yes, we do need balance and care for unintended consequences, but it's good to see that you admit you were wrong to say that this wasn't a potential solution - excellent!

Read my post again, slowly… I literally pointed out how more extreme taxes wouldn't work

Yeah, I mean, something similar to that would work here. Give people the choice between a cargo bike or an EV. Preferably open to everybody, not just businesses… I suspect that grant will be used for EVs moreso than cargo bikes

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557182#Comment_123557182

I never said the Kona in my example had a warranty but I'll bet your mazda didn't either. You got a great deal on the Mazda, I'd personally have spent a bit extra and got this MG

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/202-mg-zs-exclusive-ev-high-spec-1yr-warranty/39324278?campaign=3

You want to see literacy issues, look at any social media comment section under any EV article, and it isn't the pro-EV crowd that struggle

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557182#Comment_123557182

A Mazda CX-5 ?? I hope to God it doesn’t have the 2.2 diesel engine

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557203#Comment_123557203

Nice car, not sure about longevity / reliability of MGs but in fairness that's a lot of car for the money. What sort of range is on those? And battery warranty?

colm_mcm

If manufacturers/distributors were required to give a more meaningful long-term warranty outside of the battery-only fairly limited warranty (longer than standard warranty) currently being offered by a lot of manufacturers, it would do more to encourage sales from those who do not change their car every 3 years.

Any car with a minimum of a 7 year bumper to bumper warranty with say 200kkm mileage limit, could attract a grant of €10k for example. Have some stipulations on the type of car to be taken off the road, and period of ownership. Maybe make the warranty non-transferable.

they throw money at taxi drivers to take EVs already so this wouldn’t be much of a reach.

Or they could just stop messing with the market and let EVs sell on their own merits.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557229#Comment_123557229

There's a reading issue on this thread, several times I mentioned that it's petrol

GPoint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557275#Comment_123557275

You are just in the wrong thread for petrol cars.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123556561#Comment_123556561

and yet car ownership rates are higher in both of these cycling meccas than dirty congested old Ireland

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557272#Comment_123557272

From the their own website it says the warranty is 7 years, so as a 202 it will be in warranty until 272 and the range is 440km. The dealer in question also claims to have their own 1-year warranty which is a nice touch but not really needed

I've not heard much about MG, good or bad, I test drove one and while I personally think they are basic inside they are comfortable and the ZS model is obviously sizeable. They are owned by SAIC who were once the Chinese partner of VW and GM so they have been around a while and have a lot of experience with car manufacturing. As you might know China are leading the way now when it comes to EVs, an irony that is not lost on me

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557274#Comment_123557274

That's not a bad shout in fairness… Considering how much more robust EVs are this would have a negligible cost to manufacturers

The Irish govt supported the EUs proposal to put up to 40% taxes on Chinese made EVs, that was probably somewhat of a mistake if they wanted to increase the fleet of EVs in the country

Many things have great merits but need some kind of govt intervention to sell in better numbers. We will be facing fines if we don't get our emissions down so we can either spend the money now on the fines or on trying to reduce our emissions. Also if we do get our emissions under control other countries will be paying us for our credits so there's a double benefit to spending the taxpayers money on reducing our emissions

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557187#Comment_123557187

I know how subsidies work. In this context, they work by government paying part of the price of a new EV. And this proposal that we're discussing here is about government paying a larger part of the price of a new EV.

I asked "Are you saying that there's no level of ICE taxes that would encourage more people to switch to EVs" and you answered "There is" so clearly we just need to get the balance right. Excellent, as you'd say yourself.

I suspect it would be used moreso for EVs than cargo bikes if a choice were given, which is a good reason for not giving that choice. We don't need more EVs on the road. We need fewer cars on the road. That's what government should be subsidising.

,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557356#Comment_123557356

Have a look at usage rates rather than ownership rates and see what you find.

Vestiapx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123556729#Comment_123556729

I was under the impression that that was not the case. Country of origin inside the EU means no duty . VAT is a separate issue

Must look into it

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557952#Comment_123557952

Nope. I import cars built in Germany from Japan and pay 10% customs. The cars built in Japan are 1% customs

Vestiapx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123558152#Comment_123558152

I write and adapt erp systems amd the intracies of the rules fascinate me. Sorry for doubting you

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557623#Comment_123557623

I suspect it would be used moreso for EVs than cargo bikes if a choice were given, which is a good reason for not giving that choice. We don't need more EVs on the road. We need fewer cars on the road. That's what government should be subsidising.

In certain areas we do need fewer cars on the road, specifically around the urban centres at certain rush hour times, but outside of that the car is still the king of transport as the public transport infrastructure simply isn't there and never will be.

Even still, if you can replace all those ICE cars with EVs you're doing a service for public health

1percent

Well, as a proud diesel daddy to a car old enough to drink and on her way back from the moon I would happily sell my baby for scrap for the right price which is more than anyone on DD will pay me.

I don't think she will ever die just slowly decompose while still chugging along, doing the daily commute trapped in a limmenol space, not quite driving not quite parked up, the M50 I have heard people call it.

This year, My wife took a notion and bought electric, tis a fun drive and does more than you want 95% of the time, warenties and range are smoke screens for fear of change, which is natural, but electric can easily stand on its own 4wheels for all but the longest haul and heavy lifting which is fine. But when it comes to switch over, too many electro zealots are making perfect the enemy of good!

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123558537#Comment_123558537

There are some strange rules alright in fairness. You would think, logically speaking, that a car made in Germany or France exported to the UK when new and imported to Ireland 4 years later wouldn't attract VAT or duty under the single market rules, but here we are

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123562607#Comment_123562607

The electric zealots as you refer to them need to be vocal to counter the loudness of the FUD and misinformation being constantly spun. Mostly by big oil and right wing politicians and their social media bots

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123548133#Comment_123548133

I didn't explain myself well in that post.

We are not developing sustainable, scalable or livable urban living conditions here. Very expensive rents/housing, unrestrained anti social behavior, poor public transport options, people refusing to use public transport, unsafe roads, noise/air pollution ...

Because of this, people "escape" to the countryside. Which destroys what remains of the countryside. People are living in enormous houses, with huge driveways, huge lawns, and all the access roads for this, and often have tiny families. It makes no sense. It's Shangri la for some people but not for taxpayers elsewhere and certainly not for nature. It's certainly not Shangri la for young people looking for somewhere to live.

So, it's an unsuitable choice we are making. It's more and more unsuistainable as more people move here to avoid unsuistainable conditions elsewhere.

TerrieBootson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123552958#Comment_123552958

In an ideal world, maybe. But lots of us don't live in Phibsboro or Donnybrook with access to 15 bus routes and cycle paths

1percent

Why? Are electric losing market share? Do they not make economic sense? To hell with the old men shouting at clouds. There is enough buyers for the EVs on tge maket as it is.

Go out and enjoy the weather and don't mind the cranks on the Internet trying to rise you

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123564693#Comment_123564693

Which is why we have a rural transport network.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123569958#Comment_123569958

The Local Link bus service is doing good business in rural areas.

I've used it in seven different counties during my summer holidays in the last two years.

I have met people going shopping and students going to college.

I met people who drive to the bus stop from areas not served by the bus route and enjoy not having to drive in town traffic and pay for parking.

I even met people going for a night out and enjoying the fact that they could have a drink and not worry about driving.

The buses are clean and punctual and most drivers friendly and helpful.

Mr Q

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123569958#Comment_123569958

A local link passes my house 1 day per week. Stop saying we have public transport in rural Ireland, most of us don't.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123571791#Comment_123571791

We have public transport in rural areas, proportional to the population in rural areas.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123571791#Comment_123571791

Just to be clear, while I think Local Link is a good transport asset for rural areas it's never going to replace the car for everyone.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123565409#Comment_123565409

Are electric losing market share?

No, they aren't gaining market share fast enough

Do they not make economic sense?

They absolutely do, have a look at the IEVOA facebook and EV forum here on boards. Average saving on fuel is 75%

here is enough buyers for the EVs on tge maket as it is.

If there was enough buyers we would have far higher sales. When the ICE ban comes in 2035 we need sales of new EVs to be close to 100% or else it's going to cause a lot of hurt for people

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123572315#Comment_123572315

The minibus that takes up to 13 people on the 2 hour journey from Limerick-Ennis once a day always seems fairly full so somebody is using them. Assuming that some of the 13 live in the same locality I do think 3 or 4 EVs would be a more environmentally friendly and faster option though

Andrew loves his diesel powered busses though