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Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,345 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    By virtue of the passing of the Hate Offences Act 2024, the perpetrators of this crime, hopefully found, will receive a more severe sentence simply because Courtney so happens to be gay. 

    This is not what the Act says.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,501 ✭✭✭plodder


    The state will first have to prove that whoever is charged actually did it, and second they will have to prove that it was motivated by hatred because he was gay. The first charge could succeed but the second could fail. The second won't even arise unless there is evidence for it. But, given the fact he is a recognisable figure and also the opportunistic nature of it makes that something worth investigating. So, it's not necessarily the case that someone would get a more severe sentence, "just because he is gay". But they definitely should if a hate motive is proven.

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    LADbible and a creative agency by the name of Folk VML Dublin and VML Milan launched a satirical campaign `The Leprechaun Law’

    Untitled Image

    Ginger Lad in front, James Doyle, is a big Irish influencer. I know of two more in that group but can't put a name to them This is exactly how agencies control Ireland's social media influencers; the establishment and vested interests narrative gets pushed and not through RTe as no one watches that anymore.

    “Be a leprechaun, not a troll”…..“Spread pots of gold, not hate” the long March through the institutions has provided us with these lemmings



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    Ireland has been given two months to begin implementing hate speech laws or face legal action from the EU



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,487 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    "Ireland has been given two months to begin implementing laws preventing racially-charged hate speech.

    The state has also been told that it must implement legislation against the denial, condoning of and gross trivialisation of international crimes and the Holocaust."

    The bill that was set to be made law was a massive over reach if this is all that was needed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    The same European Union politicians who are trying to control our speech and talk about "disinformation" are rotten to their core.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 863 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    I remember when the E.U was just a trading bloc of countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock


    And somewhat manageable with 12-15 countries, where decisions could be made reasonably quickly.

    Not the ungovernable, bureaucratic mess it is today.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Raichų


    what happened to just ignoring idiocies like holocaust deniers— why do we need to legislate against it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,345 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Because lies are harmful. These lies in particular.

    Post edited by Peregrinus on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    A new national LGBTQ+ action plan released yesterday appears to commit the Government to enacting new hate crime and hate speech legislation.

    https://gript.ie/lgbtq-action-plan-commits-to-hate-speech-legislation/

    The day before in the Irish Times - Women in Ireland are increasingly subjected to online hate and misogyny - National Women’s Council say 

    The spread of far-right discourse and anti-migrant sentiment are of particular threat to women

    Desparate

    Of course, the NWCI are on the 'hate speech' bandwagon now, like the good little Gov lackie's they've shown themselves to be. They consider dissent to be impolite, and impoliteness is the worst imaginable crime among elitist white liberal women. Whatever shred of credibility they had left went out the window when they tried to delete themselves from the constitution. Ironic that NWCI is a major factor in the hate that has been generated towards women & girls. They led campaigns to destroy women's rights, right to facilities, sports etc shut down women speaking/protesting and campaigned against women in referendums



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,970 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    So much talk in the hate speech bill about hate, hatred and hate, too much hate if you ask me. If only we could get back to 1975 when there was a whole lotta lovin' going on …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    After EU's ultimatum, visa restrictions may be imposed on senior Coimisiún na Meán if they censor speech online that would be protected in the US.

    This all came out last week last week when a delegation from the US State Department’s Bureau for Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, led by a Senior Adviser at the Department of State Samuel D. Samson visited Dublin and met with Coimisiún na Meán to investigate the alleged threat posed to American commercial interests as it relates to regulation of social media platforms, outlining their concerns regarding the EU’s Digital Services Act (DSA), which seeks to regulate so-called hate speech on social media platforms. The Senior Adviser stated that Coimisiún na Meán’s role in administering the EU’s DSA represents electoral interference into the US by an Irish regulator “acting under the auspices of the European Commission" and “partisan NGOs”. US officials expressed concern that Dublin “censorship” could spill into the US and be “weaponised by NGOs and hostile flagger networks.

    The American delegation expressed frustration in particular at a recent event hosted by the Media Commission with the NGO Hope and Courage Collective (taxpayer & Soros-funded) titled ‘Reporting The Far Right’s Tactics and Talking Points’. Such an event was considered politically charged and “inherently partisan in nature.

    U.S. State Department voices its support for Ireland against EU hate speech laws.

    Untitled Image

    An exasperated senior Government figure who asked to remain anonymous told Gript that Government documents still discussing hate speech laws are focusing on “rubbish that doesn’t matter to ordinary people. Their comments follow the release of a new National LGBTIQ+ Inclusion Strategy, which seems to indicate that the Government is looking to strengthen the country’s controversial hate speech legislation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,132 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    If you don’t like hearing lies, don’t listen. It’s easier than trying to force others to not say things that might hurt feelings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    Women in Ireland increasingly subjected to online hate and misogyny - National Women’s Council say 

    "Spread of far-right discourse and anti-migrant sentiment are of particular threat to women"

    Of course the naional womens council are getting on the Hate Speech bandwagon now. They consider dissent to be impolite, and impoliteness is the worst imaginable crime among elitist white liberal women. Whatever shred of credibility they had left went out the window when they tried to delete themselves from the constitution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,345 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Who said anything about hurting feelings? I think you may have accidentally posted this in reply to the wrong post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,132 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    No it was to your post. You said lies are harmful, they are not if you ignore them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,345 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I think you attribute more power to me that I possess. If ignore lies, they cannot do any harm?

    If only I had been around in the 1930s! I could have single-handedly averted the Nazi holocaust simply by simply ignoring everything the Nazis said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,132 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    If only I had been around in the 1930s! I could have single-handedly averted the Nazi holocaust simply by simply ignoring everything the Nazis said.

    Yeah, if my auntie had wheels, she’d be a wagon. Because lies were the real issue in WW2, what nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,002 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Eh, propaganda was pretty much how the Nazis came to power and was instrumental in shaping their narrative throughout the war.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Well, the punitive terms of the treaty of Versailles, which led to chronic unemployment, uncontrolled inflation and widespread poverty, may have played a small part too…….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,132 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Yeah…we will just skip over the economic reasons that lead to it all, they had nothing to do with it.

    And again, jump straight to use the Nazis as an example to prove a point. Talk about superlatives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,353 ✭✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    This was the original post:

    "The state has also been told that it must implement legislation against the denial, condoning of and gross trivialisation of international crimes and the Holocaust."

    what happened to just ignoring idiocies like holocaust deniers— why do we need to legislate against it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,132 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Believe it or not, holocaust deniers will still deny it, even if they are allowed to say it or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,345 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The Nazis' lies had significantly harmful outcomes (like getting them into power) which I could not have prevented (had I been around at the time) by simiply not listening to the Nazis' lies. This is not a difficult argument to grasp. Please do not insult your own intelligence and mine by pretending that you cannot grasp it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,132 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    This isn’t an argument, it’s a completely hypothetical situation and it does nothing to help your case.

    You’re insulting yourself by using a straw man that is just not grounded in the modern day. It also says a lot about what you’re trying to say by having to go back nearly 100 years. It’s 2025, welcome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,345 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    There's nothing hypothetical about the Nazis, their lies, and the consequences.

    I'm just pointing to an example of a very well-known historical case in which the telling of lies resulting in grievous harm that could not have been averted simply by me ignoring the lies. I do this to refute your absurd claim that, if I ignore lies, they can do no harm.

    I don't think my example is invalidated by the fact that it occurred in the 1930s. You don't offer any reasons for thinking that it would be. But if you want a contemporary example, the lies told about the perpetrator of the Southport massacre clearly resulted in considerable harm, which could not have been averted by me ignoring the lies.

    Your claim that we can avert any harm resulting from lies by ignoring the lies is simply absurd. Stop flogging this dead horse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,002 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Propaganda from regimes like China or Russia are pretty much rampant these days in terms of trying to cause unrest via social media etc. Then there's the standard far right wing players who do similar. The value of propaganda etc hasn't disappeared over night.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    True, but its also a lie to claim, as some do, that the earth is flat.

    Most people ignore this and no harm is done.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,132 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    You are really missing what I am saying here. You weren’t alive in the 1930’s, so whatever you say about it in relation to yourself and your actions is really not important.

    Do you get it yet?



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