Kilkenny GAA Thread

It just seems Waterford, Clare and Cork are well ahead of the bunch. Kk started off with a fantastic goal last night, after that Waterford were miles ahead in every aspect, 10-12 points win would not have flattered them. Im just using them as the barometer, and we were way off it

Absolutely, and had enough chances to win the game. Several bad wides in the first half too. Waterford were very good but no doubt the game could have gone either way. To say 10 to 12 points wouldn’t have flattered them is just nonsense to be honest.

Unless Waterford had 12-15 more shots at the posts than us or they had 5-6 clear cut goal chances and should have taken a few of them then there’s no way they were 10-12 pts better than kk

I find it gas whenever someone comes out with a statement like that that such and such a team is better than another without any type of stats to back it up there basically pulling random numbers out of there h*le 🤣

It’s always a 5-6 pint breeze in both hurling and football aswell when one team plays with the wind in the first half

Again, that's selective horsesh!t to suit your narrative.

Kilkennny would have been as competitive in Munster as the best of them. Yes they didn't play well last night but were still only beaten by 3 and had 3 good chances to win or draw the game. Remember as well, Kilkenny played against a good breeze last night in 1st half, which died completely in 2nd half and allowed Waterford to score from distance, which we could not do in 1st half due to the elements

Things fell well for Waterford last night and to their credit they took full advantage. To write Kilkenny off though after 5 convincing wins on the trot, and a single defeat by a puck of a ball, smacks of ignorant opportunism by a lad with an agenda.

Has nothing to do with performances on the pitch ....

That's the realist take on it. And it should be that take that we focus on to improve things within the county.

For example, our use of the ball going forward when under no real pressure is poor at every level, our forward movement at every level is one-dimensional and is often too static, we tend to drop our HF line too far back giving the opposition HB line time to pick passes at every level, when closing down we do tend to get too many players sucked into closing leaving too many opposition players free, and quite frankly our first touch under pressure and striking from distance is a good bit off the Munster counties. Tactically, basics-of-the-game and overall-vision wise, we're behind other counties. I don't think we can argue against that, if we're being honest.

But there's no harm in optimism either given these lads are U-17 and playing their first match of top quality all season. They played some good stuff at times, and truth be told as good as Waterford were, and they were excellent, we gave them plenty of help at times and we were pretty good ourselves.

I counted four occasions when Buggy won the ball, beat his man and then passed poorly directly to a Waterford player, I think it led to two Waterford scores. But he still won the ball and beat his man, it was poor passing technique that let him down. Crisper passing and we had scoring opportunities. And Buggy wasn't the only one.

Mullen had a few times on the ball and played it into space where there was no-one. He wasn't at his best, and it was just poor delivery on his part. As good as he is, he's inconsistent, but at this level that's not unusual. We need to be able to keep players in focus more, especially our better players.

There was more than a few times the ball where a Kilkenny forward was running away from goal and the ball played in front of him. Fair enough, get's possession. But then they have to try and turn the defender. This was instead of (as Waterford did) the forward making sideways runs and the ball being delivered in front of his run so he can use his momentum to keep in front of the defender to shoot or take on his man. Poor lateral movement.

And while Waterford had as many bad wides we did, theirs were from 10-15 yards further out. They were clearly more comfortable shooting from distance, left or right.

Crisper passing, clearer focus in game, better forward movement and smarter ball forward, and better long-distance shooting, have a slight bit more of them attributes to our game, and as quality as Waterford are, we win on Saturday.

It's a tough ask to get these things right with underage coaching, but none are particularly too tough to get right either, other counties do it. They're more of a coaching structure issue than a talent issue, and while you'd be hopeful that these things will come to them in time, it does require a bit of harsh critical analysis of our coaching structures and performances and why we seem to repeatedly fall down at these things at every level compared to others, especially the Munster counties. I wouldn't go down the route of blaming individual coaches, especially lads that have the courage to put their hands up and do the job, but we do have to look at why we're not doing things as well as other counties. If that means going cap in hand to the other counties and asking them for help, so be it.

And while it may be somewhat pessimistic, we need to have the realist view and be able to look at defeats as harshly and critically as possible (without going overboard) to get it right for the next time and every time after that.

PS - Another thing we need to start working within our development squads is our belief and concentration. A lot of Kilkenny teams no loner take to the pitch with the ball-swinging arrogance of the past, and for some odd reason at every level, we lack that. Granted we don't have the aura of yesteryear, but we still are a top county and never usually not far off the top. We should act realise it a bit more.

And why do we have periods of 20 minutes where the opposition run up 10 points more than we do in every game? We're not going to win many AI titles at any grade if we repeatedly switch off for 20 minutes in matches, which seems to have become a trait over the past 10-15 years at underage and senior. The last time I saw a Kilkenny team put in a full first-second to last-second full-blast performance (even allowing for teams having purple patches within games) was the 2019 AISF. I can't think of too many games since that we've done that since, and certainly not at underage. It's a regular thing with the Munster counties, and while Leinster isn't at that level, it doesn't mean we can't do it for ourselves. If we are hammering a Leinster side by 10-15 points we let up, and while understandable we shouldn't, we should go absolutely full tilt empty the tank regardless of the scoreline. We've let too many wins, and a few trophies to boot, from sheer lack of full-game concentration.

Very disappointing on Saturday night. Waterford had done their homework on us and they wanted to win the match more and like the U20 match, there was no hunger, passion or fight from the players. Waterford's tackling was excellent and they were much better coached than our team. I think we are all guilty of being arrogant at times and think we are better than everyone else. There was a number of KK people around us on Saturday night before the match talking about the Cork/Clare minor match and going to watch it as if we were going to be in the final. That needs to change.

We are no longer the superpower we once were and other counties are not afraid of us anymore.

Michael Fennelly was on CRKC on Saturday and Pat Treacy asked him how were the development squads going and worryingly Michael said that a lot of players coming into to them from their clubs don't have the basic skills. He said a lot don't have the ability to hit on both sides and their first touch is poor and that the development squad coaches are having to do the basic skills in training instead of more high level elite training. He said the clubs need to be doing more on the basics.

Hopefully we can beat Limerick/Dublin in a few weeks as we all need a lift.

Agreed.

If there was no hunger from that crop of players after last year it's all a cod. Yes they're only chaps and I'm not going to criticise chaps but it didn't happen for some of them. Ballooning in high ball to the likes of o donavon was never going to work. Way too slow to make changes.Something I've noticed woodlock and Cummins and joxer last sat night all fired up on the line while our managers stood arms folded looking on. Not the managers fault they were appointed again. They couldnt belive they got appointed after what went on previous years.We've a chairman who's a junior e hurling senior. Way out of his depth. We have herity,mullally,dowling and o hara involved with Dublin. Richie power and Eddie brennan with Wexford and tipp clubs.our senior manager appointed without anyone else going for the position. It's completely wrong from the top and until that changes the trophy cabinet will remain full of flies and cobwebs.

Obviously disappointing to not get the win on Saturday night but some of the over reaction to that loss on here is ridiculous. At the end of the day we are talking about young lads of 16/17, results and performances with this age group can vary massively from day to day. There's no doubt they didn't play to their potential on the night but I thought they showed great fight to stay in the game and nearly nick a draw at the end. Massive credit should go to Waterford, I seen them in the Munster final and thought they looked very ordinary that night but they were super on Saturday and were well deserving winners and it would be great to see them go on and win the final now. As someone said earlier in the forum both Clare and Waterford seem to have benefited from the extra games and maybe that had a bearing on things also. Success at this age group is not always measured on winning an AI, Galway won 4 (I think) minors in a row and have got very little reward at U20 or senior on the back of it. Even looking back at some of our great players never won minor AI's and I think Tommy, JJ, Jackie, Taggy and David Herrity were on a minor team that didn't even make it out of Leinster. The key thing for these players now is keeping their development going so that they can step up to U19/U20 next year and ultimately down the line for some to step up to senior level. Going into the game on Saturday most people here were of the opinion that this was a very talented team, with some great prospects, one bad result shouldn't define these players or there Kilkenny careers.

No you definitely weren't one of the ones I was talking about with regards to the overreactions! As you say a lot of talent on that team so hopefully they can go back to their clubs and they can kick on. I do think that in the past one of our problems has been players stagnating once they go out of the county set up and I think it's definitely an area the CB and games and development committee need to improve on how players can continue to develop when they go back to their clubs.

Thats comical Michael Fennelly blaming the clubs. He's been paid to do a job do it and don't blame the club's. If players haven't basic skills they shouldn't be anywhere near development squads. That's Michael Fennelly job to ensure players do have basic skills before they come in.

Brilliant post.

Plus favoritism is massive in kilkenny now more than ever. There could be 10 lads at home better than what's picked on most underage teams.

Well said, that's exactly the point. This group of players aren't defined by one game, and while Waterford were better on Saturday, they weren't too far ahead of us. In fairness to Kilkenny as well, the wind died completely in the 2nd half and it changed the game as it allowed Waterford shoot from distance, they scored a number of points in the 2nd half that wouldn't have reached the 21 in the first half. That had a huge bearing on how the 2nd half played out.
if there was a failing in the team it was in not delivering the ball inside fast enough, too often they took an extra pass or only hit the ball in when under pressure. The quality of ball inside was poor, and in fairness a lot of that had to do with Waterford, but it has been an issue all year.
Kilkenny were beaten by a puck of a ball, and as another poster said, Waterford and Clare both seemed to benefit from the extra games.
Both Kilkenny and Cork appeared flat, whilst Waterford and Clare looked ravenous throughout and really used both their inside lines well. I'd say there are 4 top class Minor teams there and any of them could win a game against the other on a given day.

We were definitely at a disadvantage as Galway were poorer than normal and Leinster was no test. It's disappointing to lose, but some of the rubbish and overreaction here is very unfair and completely unwarranted. Some of the young fellas had an off day, but most are just 16 and people would do well to remember that and have a bit of perspective.

Limericks forward line in the 2014 Minor Final had Cian Lynch, Barry Nash, Seamus Flanagan, Peter Casey, Tom Morrissey and Ronan Lynch. They lost the final by 4 points and it did them no harm. I'm not saying we have anything like that quality but it certainly shows that you can fail as a minor team, and still produce plenty hurlers for the future. From what I've seen we'll see a higher than usual share of that team Saturday go on and wear a senior jersey and in the end that's the main goal.

But is he only part time because he didn't want the job full time? The job as advertised was a full time job and he didn't want to give up his other role with one of the colleges, which is understandable too.