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Air Accident / Incident thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,071 ✭✭✭Lorddrakul


    Reports are that a short mayday call was made and then radio contact was lost.

    The alleged video shows the plane in what appears to be a horizontal attitude just after take off, with gear down but no visible flaps deployed. Also, the engines do not appear to be at full power, though it is hard to tell from the available video. As the video progresses the pilots appear to flare the aircraft but are not gaining altitude and are probably trying to assume the best possible attitude to ditch.

    A tragic loss.

    As it fell in a residential area, they casualties on the ground are unknown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭Timesheet


    Would it be unusual to still have the gear down and be trying to communicate with the tower??

    Aviate, navigate then communicate and all that......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭RickBlaine


    Just a warning: There is a video on social media from the scene showing burnt bodies with poses similar to the Pompeii victims. Be careful when looking through social media if you don't want to see those images.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    Mis-selection of flaps on the gear up call is a possibility given that there appears to be no flaps deployed. Also reported on AV Herald (earlier, site appears to be down now) and looks to be true looking at the FR24 playback, that witnesses stated it did not back track the runway on departure, but took off from the intersection. My google maps measurements indicate that the actual take off distance available from the intersection is less than 1900m (as opposed to over 3.5km from full length).
    I can't say for sure, because I don't have the performance data for the Dreamliner, but in temperatures approaching 40c and with a pretty full load and going the distance they were it must have been very, very tight to get it into the air over that short of a take-off run.

    I know there's no sense in speculating but just putting my observations out there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Too late for me. People who put content like that on the internet without warnings or even with them should be prosecuted. Somebody is making conscious decisions to upload that, there is no excuse.

    RIP to all lost in this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,887 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    That looks more like an aircraft trimmed to land to me. Something catastrophic has clearly gone wrong in the FMC setup, or the management of the weight of fuel and cargo across the airframe. No positive climb rate was achieved and a tragic outcome.

    RIP to all aboard, and probably a number on the ground.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,075 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Seeing the damage on the ground, in such a built up area, there is going to be large numbers of deaths there too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭RickBlaine


    Just curious as a non-aviator why the high temperature would make a difference?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    There are about a hundred answers to this but the main one is that the air is less dense at higher temperatures (as it would also be at higher altitudes), so the wings (and engines) have to work more to achieve the same lift as they would at lower temperatures.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    The aircraft crashed very close to a military facility which contains a medical facility, as well as being very close to the main hospital in Ahmedabad. It seems that many of those affected on the ground are the families of doctors.

    https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/23.05272/72.61581



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,075 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    But surely planes take off from very hot countries thousands of times every day?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,483 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Within their performance characteristics, yes. Long runways, long takeoff rolls, sometimes even weight restrictions occur

    A few years ago it got too hot in Phoenix for Bombardier aircraft to take off as the performance charts didn't cover it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    As L1011 said, they do, and it's all factored into a calculation that is made each time the pilots plan a flight. It's done on the flight management computer where each component (wind, pressure, temperature, load, runway length…) are fed into an algorithm and it spits out the take-off speeds and engine power requirements and a whole host of other factors. But the FMS is only as right as the data input into it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,384 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    I'm no aviation expert either, but from a power generation perspective, a gas turbine (essentially a much bigger jet engine) is more efficient in colder temperatures as the air being colder means it's molecules are smaller/more dense, and therefore you can get more of them in to the combustion chambers… any time we were doing a performance test on a gas turbine, we'd always aim to run it at the coldest part of the day to achieve the highest efficiency..

    but like the folk above mentioned, the expected result can be calculated based on the given parameters..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    Sorry for the OT, but can you not just compensate for the temp difference by using an inlet temperature compensation factor?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,595 ✭✭✭zetecescort


    Not sure of exact dates but its 40 years this year since the Air India bombing off Cork. RIP to all today



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    That event made the world feel very small alright. RIP to all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭PCros


    Would warnings not ring out if the plane started to roll with the wrong flap selection?

    Or is that even a thing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭user1842


    I really hope this is not a case of not having the plane configured for take-off (i.e. flaps deployed) and all warnings subsequently ignored. RIP :(



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭user1842


    Ya there is a take-off config warning that should alert the pilots.

    Hopefully history is not repeating.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Airlines_Flight_255?wprov=sfla1

    Only one survivor in the above crash also...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 217 ✭✭Astral Nav


    .Nonsense post, stop putting rubbish on the Internet. I suppose that's why the RAT deployed?There's a lot of knowledgeable people on this part of boards, you clearly do not know anything about aviation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,368 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    On CNN they were live to reporter in India on scene, reporter said the survivor told officials he pulled the emergency exit door and jumped out the plane going down the runway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Aurelian




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    The plane did use full runway. Reports that it didn't were based off FR data which wasn't accurate.

    Has it been confirmed that the RAT deployed? The video footage I seen was inconclusive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Lirange


    "When I got up, there were bodies all around me. I was scared. I stood up and ran. There were pieces of the plane all around me. Someone grabbed hold of me and put me in an ambulance and brought me to the hospital," Viswashkumar told the Hindustan Times.

    It was not clear whether Viswashkumar managed to jump out before the plane made impact.”

    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/survivor-air-india-crash-jumped-out-emergency-exit-police-say-2025-06-12

    He saw pieces of the plane & bodies all around him so it couldn’t have been on the runway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,368 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    No clue, but it's what the reporter said he said '' he heard a loud bang, and pulled the emergency door and jumped out as the plane took off ''



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    Sticking a camera/mic into his face as he's having a type of imposter or dissociative syndrome as well as shock wasn't always going to yield a sane response.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Lirange


    Whilst that’s possible I’m not going to assume any of that. It’s just as possible the media are responsible for any inconsistencies. The reporter’s comments BorneTobyWilde mentions are a recall of what the survivor said & not a quote.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,607 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I think it's safe to assume that something has gotten lost in translation somewhere. If someone jumps out of a plane onto tarmac at 260 km/h, they're not going to be able to walk around after it.



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