Metrolink - Alternative Routes - See post one for restrictions.

One of the main reasons for heading to Charlemont was ostensibly that that section of LUAS had appreciable quantities of traffic in both directions at peak times: those going into town in the morning being sort of balanced by those heading out of town towards Sandyford/Cherrywood/etc., and there would be a similar (opposite) situation in the evening. No other potential southside section of metrolink would, apparently, be able to provide this. Thus, for example, an eventual route between Tallaght and the city would have large inflows (but minimal outflows) in the morning, and the opposite in the evening.

I can fully understand the logic, if the 'balancing' numbers were there.

I question if they are there, or if they are there at sufficient levels to justify changing things south of Charlemont to a 'metro' service. My recent experience would suggest that they are not and, given that that section of line is operating at frequencies which are well below those are currently achieved in other cities (including many with significant on-street sections), it may be many decades before they are. If ever.

I think it should be a general aim to roll out services in such a way that they eventually give each citizen a fairly equal opportunity in their lives and in their working day, to the extent that the state can be involved. And you can see this in the public transport development of many European (and other) cities - constantly developing new lines and reducing commuting times for citizens in areas which were previously not as well served. Copenhagen is a recently discussed example on this board.

Going across the latitude of the southside, there's about a 7.5 km gap between DL DART station and Dundrum LUAS, and about 7.5 km between Dundrum LUAS and Tallaght LUAS, on lines into/out of the city. The densities along a putative southwest route (e.g City-Rathmines-Rathgar-Terenure-Rathfarnham-Firhouse-Tallaght) have been discussed at length here, and on that route they show clearly that the population densities are higher in the southwest than along the current Green Line, while such a route would reduce current travel times by enormous amounts. Development of that suburb-city corridor as a metro and - as discussed recently on this board, the N11 - would reduce the catchment areas of each to around 1.5-1.75, a level coming close to those seen in cities like Copenhagen or Munich.

As some board readers will know, I still question the choice of route for the metrolink on the northside of the city, but as the above will hopefully show I am also not convinced that the 'balance' that the Sandyford Green Line would provide has been, or ever will be, achieved. That was one bit that set it apart from other potential metrolink routes, and it doesn't seem to have delivered.

Unfortunately, much of the attraction of incorporating the Green LUAS into the original metrolink plan (Swords-Sandyford) was, essentially, that several kilometres of overground metro could be obtained on the cheap.

It wouldn't have increased speeds from Sandyford into town, and nor would it have served new areas of the city, which the metrolink plan, on the northside, does emphatically do. (I think there should be some tweaking of the plans on the northside, to serve busier and more populated areas, but overall it's great).

Re costs, the original 'Metrolink - alternative routes' thread (which I started at the time the metrolink was first proposed) was changed by the moderators, at some point, into something like 'Routes for Dublin's second metro line'. To summarise, the thrust of most posts was that this would be between Tallaght and some other point in the Northern suburbs.

I don't buy the argument that it would be 'phenomenally expensive' to build a metro to the southwest of the city. Everybody here seems clear that one metro line in Dublin will beget demand for a second, and maybe even a third such line. There's no obvious reason why the costs of building a proper underground metro should be much greater on a southwest trajectory than they are on the planned northside section.

They're certainly not going to get any cheaper, if you build it as a 'second metro'.

Ireland is a rich country which has apparently absolved itself of any responsibility to defend its own borders. That's 2% (at least) of GDP which our European neighbours are spending on defence. The money should be there.

Spillit67, the census figures are freely available. Preliminary analysis on your part will certainly back up what I'm saying. But over the next couple of days, if I can find the time, I will try to locate my spreadsheet with the most updated figures.

I assuredly know that the cost of replacing the Green LUAS with a metro will be inexpensive. As I said above, the main attraction of incorporating the several kilometres of the southside part of the Green Line into the original metrolink plan was probably about getting a large chunk of metrolink on the cheap.

Replacement of the Green Line would certainly be cheap, which may broadly explain its attractiveness to the planners, but it's hard to see how it would add the same value to the city that an SW metro or an N11 LUAS would.

Metrification wouldn't increase the speed of the journey into or out of town, and nor would it add any new areas.

Beyond Sandyford it is mostly on-street, so any attempt to extend any putative metro beyond there to Bray, as you suggest, will be fraught with problems, but I wish you well.

The Green Line is there, and operating well. What it needs is some competing lines.

Building to the south-west, which I think should probably be done in about 3 stages, should be relatively simple: (1) building to Rathmines, which would involve about 200 metres more tunnelling than building to Charlemont, as is the current plan; (2) building to, say, Rathfarnhaand (3) building to Firhouse/Knocklyon and then to Tallaght. Some of this, but definitely not most, might be overground, and I would certainly like to see provision made, within that, for a metro route to Walkinstown Cross, for all the public transport interchange that it provides.

More expensive? Unquestionably.

Transformative? A south-west metro would be.

Well, the first stage is easy enough. Removal would be carried out as is planned for the metrolink project. I would think conveyors over St. Mary's College and Cathal Brugha Barracks, with removal via the Grand Canal, should see for the most part of the spoil for the Rathmines-Rathfarnham section. After that, it should be pretty easy, with the adjacent M50.

Double post. Apologies