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Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 14/08/25*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,113 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    The people in the media who believe asylum seekers with children shouldn't be deported?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,877 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Legitimate asylum seekers should never be deported, be they adults or children. I think everybody agrees with that!

    Somebody who brings their child to our country without a legitimate asylum claim (aka chancing their arm) is what I would define as a bad parenting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,452 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    In a functioning system, someone from the Department would have been on to him and told him to stay out of it, or told him to refer any press questions to them for a "the Department doesn't comment on individual cases" type response.

    I know, I know.. I'm expecting too much again!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Not a chance he leaves the class room and gives up a 90k salary, he wont be struggling to access meagre services or acquire housing like others less forunate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭Allinall


    You want the government to silence people expressing their opinions?

    Seriously?



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,998 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Are you seriously calling on the government to shut down dissenting opinions? Mull that one over there chief and see how it feels.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,452 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Allinall/Brian: It's not for a school principal to be complaining about an immigration/deportation policy (not even made by the Department he works for) on the national radio, no. Especially when his reasoning is so nonsensical. As others have stated, kids move schools or leave entirely for all sorts of reasons (I was one of those in my youth) without a press conference being called.

    As for the idea of dissenting opinions being silenced - well now, I'm glad to see ye have an issue with that considering that for the last several years, anyone wiith a concern or objection to the policies was called "far-right", "racist", "xenophobe" and what not, and not even given a platform on most of the mainstream media outlets or via political representatives to express it. Better late than never I suppose!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Now the thread is attempting character assassination of a school principal for showing compassion to immigrant children.

    🤣

    The middle ground?

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Bottom line is,they failed to qualify for asylum,he should accept it and get on with his job of being a principal,if he feels so strongly about the current immigration laws he can become a full time activist and advocate for changes in his own time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,013 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    As an employee of the department of education he has a duty to ensure that the opinions he expresses on this topic are clearly his alone and not that of the department.

    Realistically, he shouldn't be appearing on any radio station and expressing his opinions in tandem with informing the listener that he is doing so as the principal of that school.

    Private individuals can say whatever they like about anything, state employees should be held to a different standard.

    Surely he could have found a parent who could have expressed those opinions without the association with the department of education?

    Do department of education staff now have free reign to appear in media saying whatever they like on any topic? What if it's something off colour or defamatory?

    Just because you're in agreement with his sentiment you should still be able to understand the conflict of interest on display here.

    Glazers Out!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Bottom Line is. 🤣

    So seeing as we are talking about immigration laws I presume you have left your job and become a fulltime activist, right?

    So do you support freedom of expression in Ireland or not?

    Is it only principals that should be barred from public expression. Or is it only compassionate principals that should not be allowed.

    If we can find a principal who hate immigrants will they be allowed free expression or do they also have to quit their job to have free expression?

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    What utter nonsense!

    Just because you're in agreement with his sentiment you should still be able to understand the conflict of interest on display here

    Please clearly explain what conflict of interest exists?

    His primary function is the management of the school as a place of learning and he has a responsibility for the provision of care to all the schools students.

    In what way does talking on the radio about former students and the impact them leaving has on his current students have on his role within the school!

    Completely jumped the shark now!

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    They failed to qualify for asylum,you and the principal should accept that fact.Move on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    The principal acted perfectly legally by expressing his opinion and posters in this thread just need to accept that fact.Move on

    Have you left your job and become a full time activist or do you hold others to a standard you do not hold yourself to?

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,013 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    He's not going to affect any type of change in this situation which means he is hoping to do so going forward in future cases which is activism unrelated to his role as a school principal which is a conflict of interest.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Wtf are you on about,I'm a citizen who supports the decision of the immigration authorities to deport failed AS and to uphold our immigration laws.I also support the right of genuine AS to seek refuge in this country,but if they fail to reach the criteria for asylum,they should be removed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    I note that the principal, and other voices, only seem concerned that the children being deported didn’t have a chance to say goodbye to their friends, or that they had already settled here. There’s no outrage over what should be a far more serious issue: that these children are being sent back to a dangerous country they supposedly fled due to war or persecution - as that's why they're here, right? Yet even that concern is absent. It’s as if they quietly acknowledge the deception at play and can't even pretend to believe otherwise, not even enough to feign greater outrage.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,998 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I’m going to suggest you have another wee think.

    You’re making the government ordering an employee to shut up equivalent to people being labeled online.

    These are 2 completely different things. There is no equivalence at all.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,452 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    As nullzero pointed out above, it's entirely normal for media queries/interviews/statements to be handled or referred to a specific person or team in an organisation, rather than an individual employee going on a "solo run" as this Principal seems to have done here - especially where those statements could been seen to represent a wider position or cause issues/precedents in similar situations in the future.

    Simply put - it wasn't appropriate for him to be using his job as a platform to make personal political statements.

    The comparison is wholly appropriate too - if he had said "well they weren't entitled to be here, so…" I would imagine the responses from some quarters would have been very much along the line of "who is he to get involved?" etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,145 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Is it not standard practice for Companies or departments be they private or public would notify all employees in situations like this and similar to refer all press enquiries to the relevant department or contact to handle such enquiries. I know in a couple of companies I worked for that news leaked out and you would get reporters ringing looking for a reaction or something they could use and usually there was an email sent out to everyone that if they are contacted by the media that the media are to be referred to a department dealing with it and they give a contact number. Now the only thing is that the Principal and the Department of Education were caught on the hop by this and they media just caught the principal before the department could, I wouldn't expect the DOJ or whoever is looking after deportations to be letting it out who is being deported until after the fact so it is possible that all were caught unawares.

    I think some people in their righteousness seem to forget that whether you are in the private or public sector you are an employee and therefore should be following the guidelines the company or department issue on matters whether you agree with them or not. I don't see this as silencing people but more of incident management.

    Now if the principal in his own time as a private person wants to convey what he thinks then he is free to do that and would need to make it clear that these are his opinion and his alone and nothing to do with who or where he is employed.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,998 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I can’t believe I’m having to stand up for free expressing here. It’s gas.

    The principal is free to express whatever opinion he wants.

    What if it's something off colour or defamatory?

    Off colour, who cares? Unless it breaches whatever code of ethics applies to school principals. Defamatory? That’s what we have any defamation laws.

    Let me be clear. The government should absolutely not be free to order its employees on what to say or not say.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,998 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    boards is glitching so I can’t quote the post


    Simply put - it wasn't appropriate for him to be using his job as a platform to make personal political statements.

    you can put it that simply, but it is not that simple. The principal is free to express his opinion as a private citizen - there is no law against it thankfully.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,013 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    The post above yours explains this situation succinctly.

    I don't get to air my opinions on anything in my capacity as an employee of my employer company.

    Private citizens can say anything they wish on their own time but within an organisation there are clear guidelines and policies for situations like this.

    You're not defending free speech, you're defending speech you agree with.

    If this principal was on morning Ireland suggesting all students should read Mein Kampf you wouldn't be defending his free speech then. Personal opinions are one thing, expressing them with your professional hat on is another. End of.

    Glazers Out!



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,998 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I don't get to air my opinions on anything in my capacity as an employee of my employer company.

    Why not? Because you’ve agreed to some limitations I imagine. Or else you think you can’t, but can.

    I can say whatever I want about my employer. They politely ask me not to speak to the press, but I wouldn’t work for someone who ordered me not to and forced me to sign an agreement not to.

    In the case of this principal, there are no such restrictions. So he’s free to express his opinion.


    “End of”? End of what exactly. You’re being silly.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,998 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I think some people in their righteousness seem to forget that whether you are in the private or public sector you are an employee and therefore should be following the guidelines the company or department issue on matters whether you agree with them or not. I don't see this as silencing people but more of incident management.

    Do you know if any such guidelines have been breached? Do you know if such guidelines actually exist?


    I agree employers will do exactly what you say. But that doesn’t mean anyone has to do it, unless they sign an agreement not to talk to the press. Guidelines ARE NOT rules. Allowing employers to order their employees who they can and not talk to is immoral and is a serious breach of civil liberties. If employers could do this willy nilly, we’d have no whistleblowers exposing corrupt practices.

    I simply cannot believe that people are arguing that employees should shut up and do as they’re told. It’s absolutely ridiculous

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,013 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I don't believe it's a positive thing for public servants like this principal to be airing their opinions of serious issues that are having actual real world consequences all over our society because of his perception of the hurt feelings of a group of twelve year olds.

    We all know that if he were expressing a more conservative viewpoint on this topic he likely wouldn't be allowed to continue speaking.

    This links back to conversations around NGO's in Ireland being extremely influential, often we're mocked for pointing this out by people stating that a lot of NGO's are involved in areas like education, I'd be curious to know if there is any such NGO influence involved in this instance.

    The department of education should be the whip hand in this situation however as opposed to NGO management boards if that is the case.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,145 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Absolute hogwash.

    They don't have to do it and if they do go on solo run be it on there heads. I have seen it happen in companies where I worked, one an employee was arrested in another country on being a member of the IRA so when we got into work there was an email to say any media enquiries send tell them to contact this number of email address and not to answer any questions, as the call centre was in here in Ireland you can imagine what could have been said that would be damaging to the company if this email had not been sent to ask employees to point the media to the relevant department.

    On another occasion I found out on the way into work via the radio that I was going to be told that I was being made redundant along with another 100 or so colleagues, the person that gave that news to the media was gone before those of us being made redundant and due to this the company had to make a better than expected redundancy offer. Before you go off half cocked thinking it was a win win, I had to answer calls from my wife and other family all hearing the news that I was going to be made redundant before I was even told in the office. So everyone knew before I even knew officially.

    So yes I do see this as important for companies/departments be they public or private to manage this rather than have employees going off on one. The employees if they want to can do that on their own time and make it clear it is their own views and not the views of the company/department.

    Mod Edit: Warned for ignoring mod instruction regarding posting of anecdotes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    There is a big misunderstanding at play here.

    Schools do not have a relevant department that handles media. That would fall on the board of management for the school and the principal as the day to day head of the school.

    The department of education pays teachers but it is not considered their employer that would be the schools board of management.

    I have yet to see anyone explain exactly what it is the principal has done wrong. or how any of his actions have impacted his role in any meaningful way.

    Such an over reaction to a person freely expressing their opinion. Clearly free speech is not something that anti immigrant posters support.

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    What school have you ever been in that has a specific person/ team for media queries?

    Go on let us know because "its entirely normal" right?

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,145 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    That's what I would think as well, that this would be standard practice no matter where someone worked be they private or public. Of course people are free not to follow the company advice and make their own statement but they will need to live with that statement and it may not cost them their job but they won't be on the tops of any lists for jobs in the company



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