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Donald Trump the Megathread part II - mod warnings in OP, Updated 06/06/25

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭RickBlaine


    I don't think any of those LA protestors have an issue with foreign born criminals, especially violent ones or gang members, being deported after due process. I don't have a problem with that myself in Ireland.

    But what the Trump administration, and especially that ghoul Stephen Miller, is doing is setting unrealistically high deportation targets for ICE. To meet those targets, they are going after immigrants, many of whom have been in the US legally for years or even decades. Some of them may have made an small admin error at one point in their immigration process but they still 100% do not deserve to be deported without recourse. In many cases, they are torn from their spouses and young families, and leave their community shocked at what happened. It is beyond cruel and morally reprehensible.

    I know this because of the US political people I follow on Twitter but I don't know if the wider US public is aware of the extent of this. One thing we've seen from recent elections is that a lot of Americans have a shockingly poor knowledge of general politics. Perhaps these protests will shine a brighter light on the issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭yagan


    I wouldn't call it a territorial empire in the same guise as Britain and France in the early 20th century for the simple reason that their power was based on controlling the global oil trade to the point that even their cold war rival needed to use USD to sell oil to fund their own empire!

    I haven't seen much comment about it here but the rapid appreciation of the Taiwanese Dollar a month ago was entirely based on a massive sale of chips to China without using the USD.

    The type of drones attacks we've seen this week also highlights the vulnerability of the all of the US military bases around the world. The US empire is its currency, but it's a castle built on sand as more trade is conducted in other currencies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,164 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    The gameplay is

    1) blame foreigners for everything

    2) select the battleground as LA, as MAGA hate liberal cities

    3) stir sh1t up with the locals

    4) understandably,blocals protest

    5) use that as an excuse to send in the National Guard

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    America the beautiful eh?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭RickBlaine


    Apparently it is the greatest country in the world! 🙄



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,176 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I would. The British and French empires were just land grabs. The Americans, by contrast, brought things with them such as Common Law and their own culture and ethos. Of course, they were also quite thorough in evicting the locals whereas the British and French only rarely had this as a viable option.

    The same of course could be said of Russia.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,640 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    According to every American who doesn't possess a passport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    There's a German produced TV series "Abyss, Rise & Fall of the Nazis" along with the recent BBC series "Nazis, a warning from history" that should be required viewing for MAGA heads who think Demagogues and Fascism are the answer to any of their issues.

    I would usually recommend books but those are anathema to the masses of red hats.

    Anyway, those 2 series a thought occured. Where would a yank watch them? Most likely PBS and...

    PBS are part of the "enemy" there now. The rise of anti-intellectualism in the US has reached a crescendo. Universities, Experts & the educated are now clearly labelled as part of the "Problem" along with accurate media, factual reporting and activist Law firms.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,176 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Might check the latter out on BBC iPlayer.

    What books would you recommend?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,517 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Wasn't Trump telling his racist disciples he would deport 10 million people plus at one point? It shouldn't be a huge surprise this is now erupting into violence on the streets of the US. He is clearly going to become the most divisive and polarising US President of all time - handing over the keys of the country to a bunch of bigots and white supremacists was never going to end well.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I don't know if the German produced series is on iPlayer, it's been shown on Sky History currently. It's a ZDF series so I think it's on YouTube too

    Regarding what books I'd recommend, start with the classic scholarship on Nazism from Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism & On Violence & Shirer's Rise & Fall of the 3rd Reich to lay a foundation.

    Then I'd recommend books that delve into the economics behind Nazism like Nazism 1919-1945. Vol. 2 State Economy and Society 1933-1939, The Wages of Destruction by Tooze, the NBER also published a decent paper on The Nazi Economic System that should be read. It's vital IMHO for folks to realise that these demagoguic movements that claim to be making anything "Great Again" or helping the little guy? Are always anything but.

    On that particular note, I'd also recommend people read anything they can lay their hands on about the "Business Plot" in the USA in 1933. Multiple leading Oligarchs sought to fund and control a coup to depose FDR. They wanted Smedley Butler to lead the revolution using his credibility to gain them control. It was investigated and confirmed by Congress yet? Not one person was convicted.

    There's always a deeper rabbit hole to chase but I think the one thing that must be included in real history of Nazism is their effort to destroy intellectualism and expert led policy. I've yet to come across that particular aspect treated to an entire book but most of the histories touch on it through chapters. There are some interesting papers & articles on it though that are worth reading.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,526 ✭✭✭circadian


    The clown show couldn't even wait for a decent Reichstag event. A single burnt out car and a shopping trolley on fire to call in 2,000 national guard for up to 60 days.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    It's out of Newsom's hands if the CAARNG was called to federal Title 10 service. A precedent would be Governor Faubus' disagreement with Eisenhower. ARARNG was federalised over Faubus' objections, and laws enforced by federal troops. Not an actual direct precedent for the latter as the troop deployment was under the enforcement acts which I don't see as applying here, but the actual federalisation is not in Newsom's control. Of course, the federal military is far more limited as to what can be done with them once federalised, but there are ways they can be used. I don't believe any of the specifics have been released yet as to their planned activities.

    Side note. The US Marine Corps (and Air Force and Space Force) are not covered under the posse comitatus act. There is a DOD Instruction that they should consider themselves as bound by it, but it's a policy decision, not a law, and can be easily reversed if desired.

    Of course, no cultured, civilised country will roll armored vehicles down the streets of the capital city in a parade on a major anniversary.

    image.png image.png

    Not even unheard of in the US, for inaugural parades…

    image.png

    or other celebrations.

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭yagan


    ^^

    Isn't the issue Trump wants a bigger than normal parade as the annual military event coinsides with his birthday?

    It's hard not to view this as a personal desire rather than a national event.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    There is no annual military event. Military parades through DC are rare, just not unprecedented.

    It is the 250th birthday of the US Army. That arguably justifies some form of celebration, which inherently means it is going to be bigger than 'normal' since 'normal' is 'nothing'. It's why the Army isn't pushing back on this one, like it did the previous time it was suggested.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,176 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'm not really interested in Shirer's book as he was just a journalist around at the time and his book has been panned by a lot of historians. I assume your next suggest is a part of Richard J. Evans' trilogy? They've been on my to do list for some time. The Tooze one has won awards.

    Ultimately though, the irony is that the people who see through MAGA have little need to read these tomes while MAGA isn't really an intellectuals' movement.

    Never heard of the Business Plot though. That's horrifying. Never knew that that was a thing but it'd be odd if there wasn't serious blowback to FDR and his New Deal.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,885 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Yeah sure.

    As we've seen over the last few years with more exposure to Musk, he's been revealed as a nothing but a fraud (with a nasty streak into the bargain) and not the super genius with a Midas touch that many bought into.

    An image that some keep wanting to cling to for some bizarre reason.

    "Bias"? Don't make me laugh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Shirer's book has the problem today, that it is a 65 year old book that has in some respects been overtaken by modern research. That doesn't IMO detract from its value though. I agree that Shirer isn't a Historian but, I'd counter that the upshot of that is that he presents a very well written and sourced narrative history. Yes he makes the journalist's error of making conclusions rather than presenting data.

    I don't believe the work suffers for it. As a narrative history, it is a work that suffers in the main from scholarly criticism precisely because it is a journalistic narrative rather than a scholarly one. It was a serious effort to lay the rise of Hitler against the scaffold of system and society. It still does that particular aspect very well. Shirer, read with a notebook and an appreciation for the newer scholarship is still a good jumping off point IMO. (Edit. Added paragraph)

    I think you mean the "Nazism 1919-1945. Vol. 2 State Economy and Society 1933-1939" as being by Evans? If so, no the one I'm suggesting is by Jeremy Noakes, also a trilogy though.

    I agree with you re: the likelihood of the folk that most need some education being the least likely to actually pursue it.

    On the topic of the Business Plot, most folk with a knowledge of US history and dalliances with authoritarianism think that the German American Bund or Lindbergh's America First movement were the extent of American dalliance with Fascism pre 1941. When the truth be told, reaction to the New Deal by Financial and Industrial interests came closest to subverting US democracy.

    Post edited by banie01 at


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,228 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    The whole twitter fiasco showed everyone how talented Musk actually is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,009 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    The snag with Trump's announcement that he's going to utilise national Guard units, for his own political personal purposes, on the streets of LA in support of Homeland Security agencies and local police is that, despite his abuse of the State governor and city Police chief, he'll probably go "TACO" on this after a few hours when the phones starts hopping in the Oval Office. It's not too long since the anniversary of KSU when activated NG officers lost control, through poor coordination, of their troops resulting in civil students deaths.

    As you pointed out, federalizing the Guard brings on it's own complications on what Trump thought he could actually put them to use for. He doesn't do small print reading well. I am supposing it'll have MP units to the fore.

    There's a fair bit of difference between National Military Parades and personal enjoyment Military Parades. Dublin's once-off, while nice, did not involve heavy tracked tonnage. I'm sure we can agree the other National Parades organizers are well versed on how not to damage the road surfaces and below-surface facility systems in their capital cities. There'd be no need for Abrams to be on the Washington streets except to mollify Trump's ego.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,885 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    And his casual cruelty toward employees showed what kind of a cnut he is too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Field east


    talking about ‘he is now scraping the bottom of a bucket’ he is soooooo bereft of ??????????? . IMO he has holed the bottom of the bucket and is now making his way to the bottom of a septic tank



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Ireland didn't roll heavy tracked tonnage because the government, in its infinite wisdom, hasn't let the Army have any heavy tracked tonnage since the 1960s. They rolled what they had, this photo was taken ten years earlier than the other one.

    copyImage.jpg

    The law does not distinguish between MPs and other branches, though yes, MPs probably would be preferred for certain activities if those activities are permitted.

    As to tanks in DC, if the streets could handle 65 ton Abrams tanks in 1991, they likely can handle 70-ton Abrams tanks in 2025. If not, maybe they'll roll them on HETs. Looks a bit silly, but having an Army parade without the flagship vehicle of the force is a bit silly also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,164 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,176 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I actually knew about the Bund but that's because of Hearts of Iron IV. Not sure if that's a good thing.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 651 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    From above White House link

    In light of these incidents and credible threats of continued violence, by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby call into Federal service members and units of the National Guard under 10 U.S.C. 12406 to temporarily protect ICE and other United States Government personnel who are performing Federal functions, including the enforcement of Federal law, and to protect Federal property, at locations where protests against these functions are occurring or are likely to occur based on current threat assessments and planned operations.  Further, I direct and delegate actions as necessary for the Secretary of Defense to coordinate with the Governors of the States and the National Guard Bureau in identifying and ordering into Federal service the appropriate members and units of the National Guard under this authority.  The members and units of the National Guard called into Federal service shall be at least 2,000 National Guard personnel and the duration of duty shall be for 60 days or at the discretion of the Secretary of Defense.”

    @Manic Moran sorry to interrupt your discussion of parades

    What will you do when you are called up to put the military boot down on your fellow Americans anywhere in America?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,935 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Weirdly coincidental but below is a post I made in reply to a thread on video games and interest in history on blue sky this week. Anything that sparks an interest, a desire to learn more and somehow rewards you for it? Is a good thing.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Shall we wait and see what the instructions actually are before we start engaging in hyperbolic hypotheticals? So far, the administration and miltary have been careful to stay within the letter of the law with regards miltary activities within the US, have you any evidence that this will not continue?



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,176 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I would argue so. The issue is that the title I mentioned is mainly focused on logistics and supply but the fact that you can play as Hitler and win fairly easily means that some of the fanbase is… ahem… problematic.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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