Donald Trump the Megathread part II - Mod Warning added to OP 10/1/26

Wasn't Trump telling his racist disciples he would deport 10 million people plus at one point? It shouldn't be a huge surprise this is now erupting into violence on the streets of the US. He is clearly going to become the most divisive and polarising US President of all time - handing over the keys of the country to a bunch of bigots and white supremacists was never going to end well.

The clown show couldn't even wait for a decent Reichstag event. A single burnt out car and a shopping trolley on fire to call in 2,000 national guard for up to 60 days.

^^

Isn't the issue Trump wants a bigger than normal parade as the annual military event coinsides with his birthday?

It's hard not to view this as a personal desire rather than a national event.

I'm not really interested in Shirer's book as he was just a journalist around at the time and his book has been panned by a lot of historians. I assume your next suggest is a part of Richard J. Evans' trilogy? They've been on my to do list for some time. The Tooze one has won awards.

Ultimately though, the irony is that the people who see through MAGA have little need to read these tomes while MAGA isn't really an intellectuals' movement.

Never heard of the Business Plot though. That's horrifying. Never knew that that was a thing but it'd be odd if there wasn't serious blowback to FDR and his New Deal.

Shirer's book has the problem today, that it is a 65 year old book that has in some respects been overtaken by modern research. That doesn't IMO detract from its value though. I agree that Shirer isn't a Historian but, I'd counter that the upshot of that is that he presents a very well written and sourced narrative history. Yes he makes the journalist's error of making conclusions rather than presenting data.

I don't believe the work suffers for it. As a narrative history, it is a work that suffers in the main from scholarly criticism precisely because it is a journalistic narrative rather than a scholarly one. It was a serious effort to lay the rise of Hitler against the scaffold of system and society. It still does that particular aspect very well. Shirer, read with a notebook and an appreciation for the newer scholarship is still a good jumping off point IMO. (Edit. Added paragraph)

I think you mean the "Nazism 1919-1945. Vol. 2 State Economy and Society 1933-1939" as being by Evans? If so, no the one I'm suggesting is by Jeremy Noakes, also a trilogy though.

I agree with you re: the likelihood of the folk that most need some education being the least likely to actually pursue it.

On the topic of the Business Plot, most folk with a knowledge of US history and dalliances with authoritarianism think that the German American Bund or Lindbergh's America First movement were the extent of American dalliance with Fascism pre 1941. When the truth be told, reaction to the New Deal by Financial and Industrial interests came closest to subverting US democracy.

The snag with Trump's announcement that he's going to utilise national Guard units, for his own political personal purposes, on the streets of LA in support of Homeland Security agencies and local police is that, despite his abuse of the State governor and city Police chief, he'll probably go "TACO" on this after a few hours when the phones starts hopping in the Oval Office. It's not too long since the anniversary of KSU when activated NG officers lost control, through poor coordination, of their troops resulting in civil students deaths.

As you pointed out, federalizing the Guard brings on it's own complications on what Trump thought he could actually put them to use for. He doesn't do small print reading well. I am supposing it'll have MP units to the fore.

There's a fair bit of difference between National Military Parades and personal enjoyment Military Parades. Dublin's once-off, while nice, did not involve heavy tracked tonnage. I'm sure we can agree the other National Parades organizers are well versed on how not to damage the road surfaces and below-surface facility systems in their capital cities. There'd be no need for Abrams to be on the Washington streets except to mollify Trump's ego.

His kids too!

I actually knew about the Bund but that's because of Hearts of Iron IV. Not sure if that's a good thing.

Weirdly coincidental but below is a post I made in reply to a thread on video games and interest in history on blue sky this week. Anything that sparks an interest, a desire to learn more and somehow rewards you for it? Is a good thing.

I would argue so. The issue is that the title I mentioned is mainly focused on logistics and supply but the fact that you can play as Hitler and win fairly easily means that some of the fanbase is… ahem… problematic.

Apparently he's describing the US as a "Big Beautiful Store". My store,my prices he says.

Sweet lord!

You're looking for evidence?

How about every other "norm" absolutely trampled on by Trump?

What on earth makes you think he will stop where you think he should?

Why are you assuming that he won't?