Madeleine McCann

And supposing it was Bruckner, did the McCanns know there was a potential child-rapist and kidnapper operating in the area? No, they didn't. So their main concern was just one of the children waking up and wondering where their parents were, hence the checks. They didn't want to inadvertently wake their children up, if they were sleeping, hence leaving the door unlocked, so that they could come in quietly.

We've established that it's a level of care lower than you think should be provided, and I do not say that it is a premium level of care, but I think it falls in that big region between perfect parenting and criminal negligence which is basically, "Yeah, that'll be fine…" that parents have been practicing down throughout the years (I know people will claim up and down that they were never allowed out to play unsupervised as little kids to refute this, but I know from my own experience and many I grew up with that this was not true)

You were the one saying you thought the McCanns were criminally responsible. Well, they're not. If you really think differently on this, you can contact the relevant UK authorities - their DPP, Scotland Yard, the closest police station to wherever the McCanns live. There is no statute of limitations if you want to try them by jury. I doubt you'll hear back, though…

Hardly, but thanks for twisting the words around.

Obviously the point was that parents haven't always been watching their kids, even ones of a vulnerable age, with the assumption that not much is going to happen. I can't remember back as far as age 3, really, but I can certainly remember being allowed out to play unsupervised by the ages of 4 and 5, which is still well within the vulnerable age range, and not much I could have done about it if a kidnapper had decided to target and abduct me by surprise.

Maybe I should report my parents to the gards for historical endangerment… 😶

I didn't twist your words. You made the comparison.

It's not clutching at straws. This is the account the McCanns gave. Do you think they left the door unlocked because just "Ah, shur, fúck it… (lights up a Superking)?"

You did. I said that parents have practiced the "that'll be fine" mentality (and probably still do) and then expected that people would be along to refute this by saying that they were never allowed out to play unsupervised as little kids, i.e. this argument of 'my parents knew where I was at all times growing up', which has no basis in my memory or any of the other kids I knew, as if then to say that that McCanns' behaviour was exceptionally negligent.

Yes, people find it irrelevant to this discussion so they can continue holding the pitchforks high without ever trying to bring it to a conclusion. After all, it's really all about the pillorying…

We used to go to Butlins at Mosney in the early 80s.

Iirc back then, some adults would often go to the evening entertainment in the main centre/ballroom and leave their kids in bed. I think staff patrolled the chalet areas and then there would be a sign in the ballroom etc saying "child crying in chalet no 234".

Then if you seen it, the parent would return. Maybe.

Different times.

I worked with an upper class man from England for around 5 years. This case came up randomly one day and he said it is the norm for them do leave the kids asleep and go out that night. Will never understand it myself.

Will you for one minute forget about that there may, or not, have been a child abductor in the area.

You do not leave a 3yo and two 1yo children alone in a strange place!

If they were gone for maybe 3 hrs (180 mins), the children were probably left alone, unchecked for 170 minutes.

That's right. All blame deserves to go to the perpetrator. Thousands of children die every year from drownings, yet the McCanns have attracted more combined opprobrium than the parents off those multiple thousands of children who are far more blameworthy, by a wide margin.

I sort of get it - there is no perpetrator to focus the anger on - no outlet - so it gets dished out to the parents with an equivalent intensity, because they are available - which absolutely sickens me.

I have taken my kids skiing - it's a very dangerous sport, someone could come hurtling down a run and crash into them and they would be dead - it's happened. We went to Morzine one time. The hotel was on the crest of the ridge - ski in, ski out - lovely. We arrived after dark there was bit of a wind, it was dark, cold, and snowing; along with a handful of others, we boarded the gondola and off we went - with the bloody door wide open and the gondola swinging - all the way to the top, a danger that obviously could have been avoided by staying home. A couple of days later, and we are on a chair lift to the top of a run. It's right on a cliff edge. We come off the chair, but my daughter got tangled in the chair and was dragged around the end of the loop and was being dragged rapidly back towards the 60m+ vertical drop. I and others was screaming at the lift operator to stop the lift but on it went. The lift operator finally stopped playing with their phone, or whatever it was they were distracted by, and stopped the lift. Five more seconds and my daughter would have been dead. Wouldn't have happened if we had stayed at home.

Parents who believe they do not take calculated/uncalculated unnecessary risks with their children are liars. A young girl was kidnapped out of her bath in the UK while her mother was in the kitchen. The child was raped and dumped in an alley in the snow some distance away. How dare the mother leave her daughter in a bath by herself, she could have slipped, banged her head and drowned - or been abducted and raped, all because she didn't lock the front door, because she thought it was safe.

The 'I would nevers' are self-deceiving holier-than-thous. The McCanns took a risk, as all parents do, as I have done, it was infinitesimally small, as risks go. They deserve the utmost sympathy for their horrendous misfortune, not the pile-on by the smart arse, perfect, 'I would nevers'.

Again I didn't. You made the comparison between the two. If they are apples and oranges (which they are by the way) why make the comparison at all? Just trying to muddy the waters.

@briany

"They didn't want to inadvertently wake their children up, if they were sleeping, hence leaving the door unlocked, so that they could come in quietly."

That's the most stupid excuse I've ever read here for leaving the door unlocked.

The only thing I would agree is that:

• We don't know for certain if Bruckner actually did it
• We also don't know for certain that Maddie is dead
• We don't know if Maddie just wandered off or was taken by somebody
• We also don't know if Maddie had an accident while unsupervised in the room and the parents were involved in her disappearance to cover things up

These are only several different forms of police enquiry.

In order to prove murder one needs to have a body. And then the police needs to link it to Bruckner. So far neither has happened.

If Bruckner did it, he must have planned it longer term. He must have studied the behaviour of the McCanns and where they went to dinner, he must have familiarized himself with the apartment complex, ( which I believe he did, as he did odd manual jobs there?), if he took her that night he could hardly have been seen with a little girl the next day. So, he would have molested her on that night and then killed her and disposed of or hidden the body in an area or place where he was certain she would never be found and he would never be connected to. He could hardly afford to be seen with a little girl the next morning crying for her parents if everyone is looking for a little girl.

He would also have to have made certain not to leave any traces at the apartment complex when taking Maddie as well as when she was in his car.

He would also have had a 30 minutes head start, if he observed the apartment complex from a distance and noticed how often somebody checked up.

The only thing the police have are a couple of pictures on a USB stick and quite possibly the connection data of his cell phone giving the whereabouts that night.

Ah sorry. It was only 90 minutes.

Even worse as it was only 90 minutes before they realised that their child was missing.

Just goes to show how short a time it takes!

Deleted

For some reason I can't quote cnocbui but there is so much nonsense in their post.

We all make reasoned calculated assessments with our kids (well not me as i don't have any) but there is a big difference between that and leaving alone.

What does "official reason" actually mean?

Give it up, please.