Madeleine McCann

It was approximately 60 seconds to walk from their table to the patio of 5A. It is, by any breakdown, a short distance. Allowing a minute to check and no interruptions, it's approximately a 3 minute round trip.

German police investigating Madeleine McCann case conducting new searches in Portugal, UK police say.

"The Metropolitan Police Service is not present at the search, we will support our international colleagues where necessary."

So the resort management are at fault for not telling them that leaving their small kids alone night after night in the apartment with the door unlocked was a bad idea?

Do parents really need to be told that? I've never been told that and have managed to come home from each holiday with the same number of people as we left with.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-41643955.html

Maybe that prick has given up some info

That part of the case always bothered me. The McCanns were later on playing with the sympathy of the people, but in reality it was them who allowed the possibility for this crime to happen as they were clearly not looking after their children. Failure to protect a child, child abadonment as well as neglecting a child are actually crimminal offences under UK law. However the McCanns always avoided any kind of trouble with the law for staying active in the investigation themselves by hiring private investigators, doing publicity work, etc…

Also the German police does have some evidence against Bruckner, even if it's weak evidence, however they're holding it back due to tactics in the investigation. No point in speculating, but I am sure, they have strong reasons to investigate again.

The problem will be no matter what they find, legally it'll be hard to prove that Bruckner actually did murder her. Suppose Bruckner wasn't alone and he had an acomplice? There was talk that they had pictures on some USB stick, but I don't know what they have. If it is conclusive they would have put him on trial earlier.

As a kid we used to go to Portugal, just a few miles down the coast from PDL. Even when very small, we ate with my parents every night. One night of the week my parents would have an "adults only" night out and they'd get a babysitter for us. The babysitter was usually a waitress from one of the restaurants who was only damn glad to take a night off from waitressing and earn money just by reading to 2 kids who would be asleep by 9pm. I don't know how much it cost, but I imagine not a whole lot.

Anyway, maybe we should move on from this particular line of discussion. Everyone accepts what the McCanns did was wrong and as has been said, they paid the ultimate price.

Loads of people have gone without a babysitter in this situation. I was only watching a couple of bits on the latest Mccann news today where the pundits were talking about when they did similar or had similar done with them as kids. It isn't award-winning parenting, but I can see the logic where parents think the kids will be asleep and they'll be nearby checking, so thinking that a sitter isn't really necessary.

That would be an argument or a difference of opinion. I personally would never call it force majeure.

The children were deliberately put in a situation of harm and that is regardless of what other parents would have done. The door was left unlocked. Only every 30 minutes some adult was supposed to check up on them. Bruckner or anybody else could easily have gone in and taken any one of them within 5 minutes.

Did they do it the same way with their passports or valuables? Photo cameras, etc?

They could have used something like a "babyphone" - to monitor them, they were available back then, as well as have locked the door. If something then happened, I could call it force majeure.

But as far as I know now the McCanns clearly neglected to protect their children, with a clear opportunity that some harm might come to them.

Sadly that isn't seen the same way by other people.

That's exactly my point. The McCanns clearly put their children in a vulnerable position of harm.

The public campaign to find Madeleine also does have the conotation to me that it also served in part for the McCanns to play the loving and "careful" parents to find their daughter and cover up their contribution to her disappearance as well as possibly avoid legal trouble.

Suppose Bruckner did it, he would have been prepared with his sick mind. Staked out the apartment complex with binoculars, observed the parents for a while, noted that they left and tried his luck with the door. It would have taken him less than 5 minutes to come up to the apartment, enter take her and leave and he would have had her in his car and driven of and done whatever unspeakable things.

At the moment they don't have a body thus they can't prove murder. And even if they find her and have proove that it is Madeleine they will most likely not be able to link the body to Bruckner, that is unless they find or are still able to find and prove his DNA on her.

I suppose the police do have pictures on some kind of USB stick which was found in possession of Bruckner or somewhere in his house in Germany? And they started searching and digging in all the areas or in or around houses Bruckner visited whilst in Portugal? It's just a guess of mine that that's what's going on. They may also have connetction data of his cell phone to atempt to retrace Bruckner's steps in Portugal?

Praia de Luz isn't Jobstown. It's a quiet place in the Algarve with a very low crime rate of any kind. To leave a door unlocked in that environment wouldn't be ideal, but nor would it constitute an exceptional risk, even for petty crime, never mind kidnapping.

You wouldn't leave one alone, maybe, but it's evident between the listening service that the resort at one time offered and even the Tapas 7, that yes they were prepared to leave their little ones alone for periods. This isn't an argument to say that this is great, commendable behaviour. It is to say that it had been common enough behaviour from parents in times past and if it is criminally-negligent to do this, then it really shouldn't be only the McCanns in the firing line.

I would call it force majeure because an abductor who either gets extremely lucky to try your apartment when you're not in, or had been staking you out would be a very exceptional circumstance, and it was a circumstance that the McCanns didn't know they were in at the time. As far as I know, Praia de Luz never had even a hint of another incident like this in its history, before or since.

I can see the logic in the sense that they didn't think they needed a babysitter because the kids would be sleeping and that they would be coming in every half hour to check. Not that I think this would pass muster on Mumsnet, but nor do I think it's criminally negligent. It was a bit of parental be-grand-ism that got caught out, basically, and they have paid the price on that a thousand fold.

@briany

I'd say it's just a difference of opinion. I believe we've had this conversation before as well.

I personally find the McCanns criminally resonsible. They abandoned their children in an apartment unsupervised and with an unlocked door. They neglected to keep an eye on them and failed to protect them from either Bruckner or whomever.

The McCanns constantly played the card of being vicitmized in public, but in reality they knowingly contributed to making this crime happen.

Both of the McCanns were doctors by profession. They were smart and one would have expected them to act smartly with their children. One simply can't argue, they didn't know any better and that it was force majeure.

It's no wonder that the police in Portugal initially investigated the McCanns, for either playing a part in the disappearance or some kind of accident that happened in their absence and them trying to cover things up.

They had no other leads back then.

@tinytobe

I personally find the McCanns criminally resonsible. They abandoned their children in an apartment unsupervised and with an unlocked door. They neglected to keep an eye on them and failed to protect them from either Bruckner or whomever.

OK, you think they're criminally responsible. I don't believe there's any statute of limitations on criminal liability in UK law, so maybe you could write to their DPP or something and see how far you get with it.

A risk assessment? Really?

Leaving a child, not yet 4 yo, and two 1 year old babies alone was negligent.

What if Maddy had woken up and gone looking for her parents? In that 30 mins between checks, she could have wandered off anywhere.

I come from an era where things were different. I was about the same age as her in 1971 and there wasn't any way that my parents would have left me alone at that age. And definitely not 1 year olds!