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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,950 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is a difference between going to JR and winning the JR though.

    The delay is still farcical at this stage, but they can't just go "we approve it cause it is going to the courts anyway" as that is guaranteed to just send it back to square 1.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Meanwhile:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2025/05/07/ministers-need-to-stop-pointing-out-obstacles-to-delivery-and-start-tackling-them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,592 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    I mean they surely have considered every single word of the application by now 🤷 even if only one person worked on the project. There's really not that many pages, not 3 years work



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Paywall, but I can just about make out it’s authored by Michael mcdowell so I can imagine what it’s like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Completely lacking in self awareness and full of hypocritical nonsense?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭spillit67


    McDowell can be criticised on many things but he knows his onions when it comes to the mechanics of the State.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I would disagree, he has contradicted himself multiple times over the years. Prime example was one of his objections to the Luas were we should instead be building a metro, now one of his objections to the metrolink are that we should instead be building more light rail…..

    The reasons he flip flops is nothing less than blatant obstructionism as he doesn't believe the city needs more public transport infrastructure at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Unfortunately that works in his favour when he wants to delay projects.

    I agree with him on many topics but hard to forgive him for being instrumental in delaying sections of Metrolink.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭spillit67


    That's nothing to do with the mechanics of the State. I'm referring to his understanding of how our State works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Yeah absolutely, I don't agree with him on that (and other things too).

    I'm not sure it has ever really worked for him tbh. I don't think most people have the bandwidth to try to digest what he says on matters of Government and his manner makes him hard to like. I'd say his political career is middling in terms of achievements, he's a bit of an underachiever imo relative to his capacity (although you can't deny the impact that the PDs had on Irish politics).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,926 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Eamonn Ryan wasn't responsible for planning though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭spillit67


    I didn't say he was, but he was a Minister. I don't believe ministers should be quiet when key departmental initiatives are delayed.

    Also I'd look at their history and their inputs into the latest planning act.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Tbf he was fairly outspoken on the LNG terminal but very quiet on metrolink.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,393 ✭✭✭Enduro




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just a shame that he didn't seem to have all the answers when he was actually in power as Minister and Tanaiste. It's only when he started writing newspaper columns that he discovered all the answers.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    First real interview with Sweeney, on charge of the Metrolink project, and he comes across as refreshingly realistic about the project.

    Says politicians and the public need to get their heads around the fact that the cost of this is going to overrun, and that's something of an inevitability with megaprojects. Also realistic about the time it's going to take, particularly in Ireland, which he implies is the worst he's seen in terms of construction speed.

    It's behind a paywall in the Sunday business post.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Similar reportage in The Irish Times just now, but the clickbaity headline makes it more of a hit piece.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2025/05/11/dublins-metrolink-could-go-40-over-budget-and-leave-many-homes-grievously-impacted/

    Quote:

    The Metrolink, Dublin’s proposed underground railway, could go 40 per cent over budget and leave many homes and businesses “grievously impacted”, its programme director has warned.

    In his first interview since taking office, Dr Sean Sweeney, the New Zealand mega-project engineer, told the Business Post that the most recent 2021 cost estimates of €9.6 billion will have risen due to construction inflation and that the 2035 deadline is likely to be missed.

    “Now since 2021 we have had well north of 20 per cent construction escalation. So do the math,” Sweeney said. “The price is going to be some result of that simple multiplication. But we’re doing that work now.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Not the case though. He co-founded the political party (and was the "intellectual powerhouse") that had the most impact on Ireland since the foundation of Fianna Fáil. As a Minister, he was probably the most zealous in what he did in that cabinet (for better or for worse, because I know a lot of people hated him in that role).

    A criticism you can levy at McDowell towards the end was how he let that government role on at the end, partly due to his own personal ambition (just got the leadership). Apart from that, he was clearer a "doer" in Irish politics. As I said, he arguably was "middling" in terms of what he did vs. his capacity, which is really down to his manner.

    I really don't have an issue with Michael McDowell writing in the Irish Times and putting forward criticisms of government (as Garrett Fitzgerald did before him and Leo Varadkar is moving into too). I think he's "earned" that and it is always a useful perspective to have people who were senior in politics. This doesn't mean I agree with everything they say but it's healthy to have discussions.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes, he was a doer at Thornton Hall, costing the state over a hundred million for land that went untouched for two decades, before being used now for a few tents.

    Save us from doers please.



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    I find it funny that the Irish Times makes the entire article not about what the CEO of Metrolink said, but what the Ministers press secretary banged out in 30 seconds in response to an inane question.

    IT: "The CEO just said that that the costs could go up and it could be delayed, any response?"

    Press Secretary internal thoughts: "Every project gets looked at it, what do these guys expect?"

    Press Secretary: "The project will be examined as a matter of course"

    IT: "Metrolink project to be examined after CEO comments!!!"

    Really depressing that our "paper of record" is of such low quality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Again, perfectly possible to criticise people but also look at in the round.

    Interesting that this thread of all threads now as come round to the idea of preferring politicians who don't do anything. Call me the next time we are all having a rant about how politicians aren't pushing Metrolink enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Grassy Knoll


    I would see this very much as a guarded warning from Sweeney that the political system needs to put on the ‘big boy and girl pants’ and face some realities. I understand it has been noticed the political level enthusiasm for this mega project is lukewarm, and in his experience lukewarm won’t really cut it. At the moment it is plodding along through the planning process etc but within 12 months or whatever it’s into the action phase where money, disruption, willingness to face down opposition will feature. If there are more soundings like this from him in the autumn there could be trouble ahead.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,630 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    How is political enthusiasm lukewarm? It's part of the PfG, it's a FG continuation of the original FF project and the new Minister for Transport has already said that the government is committed to building it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,837 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    I'm actually fearful for the project now after reading this article. I was not aware that the Oireachtas Committe on Infrastructure was due to hold hearings on the project. I thought we were well past the debate and discussion on this project.

    The new Oireachtas Committee on Infrastructure, which is expected to be one of the most powerful in the 34th Dáil, is expected to hold hearings on the Metrolink project early in its tenure. It is chaired by Laois Fianna Fáil TD Seán Fleming.

    This could turn into another farce for the project, particularly if any recommendations are made that impact on the plans already made by the project team. I would not rule out that happening.

    Seán Fleming is a former member of the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee and does not have a solid grasp of facts or the finer details of projects. He goes for the populist headline time and time again. I can guarantee you that the Committee will hone in on expenditure and the project will probably face months of intense negative media coverage when the hearings get underway. All sorts of headbangers are likely to appear before the Committee to pontificate how it can be done cheaper and to poke holes in the plans put forward by the project team.

    The Minister will be obliged to review the Committee recommendations so more delays in store I'd imagine. Don't be surprised if we get some farcical recommendation that the project should be scaled back or some similar sort of nonsense. This is not good. The Committee on Infrastructure will be nothing but a talking shop and it's remit should firmly be on getting the crayons out for hypothetical projects rather than interfering with ones that are at an advanced stage and being handled by experts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Oh we all know the Clongriffin DART spur will be getting an airing….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,592 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    The final approval stage is standard for large projects and comes after or during planning approval.

    We can of course expect 'fresh consideration' given to luas and DART spurs from charlestown and clongriffen. I would say it's likely to be dropped at that stage or 'delayed until an assessment of alternatives etc.'



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Still very optimistic about this project, even these articles and the committees.

    It was only a couple of months ago that the Irish Times was pushing that bullshit €23 billion figure, and that barely caused a ripple to be honest. Metrolink was always going to be hotly debated once it came close to any approval by government figures, and the facts haven't changed at all, we are still miles off our emissions targets, and Metrolink is going to be a big part of that.

    In fact, if things have changed, they have changed in favour of proceeding with Metrolink, as it's getting more important in terms of hitting our targets. The cost figure is also a bit of a misnomer, as it's without the context of the benefit side of things, construction costs aren't going up in isolation, the economic benefits are also going up at the same time, so the CBR is staying the same, or even getting better. In fact, thinking about that interview with Sweeney, he'll be front and centre at those committees, so it seems like he's very capable of cutting through bullshit.

    No, I'm not worried about Metrolink.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,837 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    That is a fair point about Sweeney and him being front and centre at the committee meetings. Hopefully the whole thing doesn't become a circus and they can continue to focus on driving the project forward. Hopefully we will get an update on the Railway Order too. An Bord Pleanála will be appearing before the Committee I'd imagine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Scrap it altogether if they don't build this version. Because their lying to the public about building a new revised cheaper scheme, re- invention of the wheel sham, is obvious to even the government's biggest cheer leaders now ... what would metro north have cost to build versus this ? One third the cost had it been built when they had planning?

    Post edited by Idbatterim on


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