General gaming discussion

Cordell · 09-05-2025 09:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123430779#Comment_123430779

Yes I'm sure Ubi (and now Tencent) has plenty of talented people, but they are being as you say smothered by the rest of them talentless and passionless people, and also the suits that are completely out of touch of what gamers want to play (and buy). And they kind of lost the whole company, whatever was profitable they now share with Tencent and the rest of them doesn't seem to have any future.

Grumpypants · 09-05-2025 09:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123429707#Comment_123429707

I can't really find any info on the actual budget for this title, but the dev team has around 30 employees. So there naturally is a buzz on social media that it was "made very cheaply by 30 people", but it's not quite accurate. A lot of the work was outsourced to contractors. Animations, localisation, QA etc. Even the soundtrack has 30 musicians and a 9 piece choir!! No wonder it sounds great when there was more musicians than devs 🤣

So, while using short-term contractors is a model and it is great to see smaller studios being able to make great games at reasonable budgets. Hopefully, it doesn't become the norm. Being a contract worker picking up a few weeks work here and there brings with it a lot of uncertainty and is ultimately bad for the industry as those skills just go elsewhere.

AAA studios, while they do ramp up and down, and it's not without its own uncertainty, it is more common for them to employ all those teams in-house with a full year's salary, health care, pensions, etc. so they can develop their skills within the industry.

Cordell · 09-05-2025 09:50AM

Actually it is already the norm to outsource work, there are full studios relying on outsourced work. For example, as a small studio who only has a need for QA once every couple of years it makes little to no sense to full time employ game testers. But the thing is, large teams working on big budged games also outsource parts of their workload.

CatInABox · 09-05-2025 10:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123431027#Comment_123431027

Ah, I think I came across wrong in the post, the idea of moving to ARM isn't bananas, it's the right call for MS (I think Sony will eventually as well), but to me, the entire concept of swapping architecture is bananas from the history point of view.

The idea that x86 wouldn't be the default, that Intel could be close to collapse is bananas for someone my age.

SuperBowserWorld · 09-05-2025 10:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123431331#Comment_123431331

An epic soundtrack will pay for itself for ever. A great investment and it'll run on the cheapest tech. If that's married with a great game (or film) then you've got a franchise and money making machine.

Retr0gamer · 09-05-2025 11:54AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123431287#Comment_123431287

Well if you think south of midnight's failure is due to Sweet Baby and not middling reviews then that's on you. And if you are in agreement with people like Grummz and Asmongold then you should know you are on the wrong side of history. They don't like that game because it has black people. Simple as. Saying Sweet Baby is the issue is just their way of not using the N word.

And again you can't just cherry pick game failures. Sweet Baby has their hand in multiple big budget games, plenty have failed but others like Assassins Creed Shadows have been a massive success. Again it was just used as an excuse to give out about games with black people. I remember their excuse was how having a black samurai was an insult to Japanese gamers whereas the reaction from Japanese gamers was "this is rad as ****" and it's the best selling game in the franchise there.

johnny_ultimate · 09-05-2025 01:01PM

Played through despelote last weekend and it's really quite remarkable - the most satisfying 'narrative game' I've played in a while. It starts as an autobiographical portrait of a child in the middle of World Cup qualification fever and political upheaval in 2000s Ecuador, mostly played through short first person vignettes of the main character / developer kicking around a football during school breaks and the like (great football physics btw). It's full of really specific detail and character. But it reveals itself to be something trickier and more complex as it progresses - some of the reveals are best experienced for yourself, but in broad terms it's a game about the difficulties of making a game set in a really specific place and time. Super stuff. Only around two hours long so highly recommended. Presentation is great throughout, from its incorporation of real life photography to some clever ways it plays with form and perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQBOjLaQr0

Also played around an hour of Blendo Games' Skin Deep so far, which is also an utter delight. Basically a comedy immersive sims, where a heavily simulated world contains copious opportunities for slapstick comedy and emergent chaos. The writing is first rate too - you play an insurance worker staffed with rescuing space-faring cats from pirates, and the writers are having a blast with the premise. In particular the notes and emails (including ongoing correspondence with the cats you've rescued), which are frequently very funny indeed and play up the absurdity of there being notes planted all over the environment. Blendo remain some of the best around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUMPe-hns_Q

Video games - good!

Cordell · 09-05-2025 01:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123431886#Comment_123431886

Well if you think south of midnight's failure is due to Sweet Baby and not middling reviews then that's on you

It got middling reviews because it is a mediocre game - not the other way around.

As for being in agreement with people like those two and others, well, we all like good games, that's what we want, so I've no problem agreeing with them on that. And that includes attractive protagonists and settings.

With the accusations of racism maybe you're going a bit too far so that's the end of my argument over SBI and "gamergaters"

johnny_ultimate · 09-05-2025 01:28PM

I'm confused - virtually every single thing I've read and listened to about South of Midnight has praised its setting, storytelling, presentation, music etc… Criticism I've heard has almost exclusively been around apparently repetitive and ho-hum combat and platforming getting in the way of that. Nothing new for the studio, incidentally, who have consistently made handsomely crafted games with interesting settings that have just not been very fun to play.

Granted, I don't listen to rabid YouTube culture war zealots so don't give a jot about what they're ranting about, but the game seems to have underwhelmed for reasons unrelated to its setting and writing, which again have been pretty widely praised.

Mr Crispy · 09-05-2025 01:34PM

With the accusations of racism maybe you're going a bit too far so that's the end of my argument over SBI and "gamergaters"

Well, until the next time.

Cordell · 09-05-2025 02:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123432210#Comment_123432210

I think you got my post wrong, it wasn't me who have said that it was a failure, I just said that I wouldn't have liked one of the best games I played in years to be the same as this one - not fun to play.

This studio can continue to make games that are not fun to play and don't sell well until they run out of funds and the inevitable happens. I just want that to be isolated to a few studios, ideally as few as possible, so that the rest of us can still enjoy fun games. I don't think that is some sort of radical opinion.

johnny_ultimate · 09-05-2025 02:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123432355#Comment_123432355

LOL that's not what you said at all.

"We both know that Clair Obscur would have looked totally different with their involvement, probably something like South of Midnight set in some Paris Banlieue."

You brought up South of Midnight, overtly referencing its setting and representation as a negative. We can all read it.

Penn · 09-05-2025 02:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123432355#Comment_123432355

The issue is this bizarre obsession with conflating "Game not fun to play" + "Game has female main character who you can't masturbate to" + "Game has story elements regarding race/gender"… therefore "Game bad because DEI". All by morons who need to spread such slurry to justify their own content because negativity garners more social media engagement than actual rational discussion.

Many games suck ass for a large variety of reasons. Games with "DEI" have been great. Games with "DEI" have been bad. Games without have been both good and bad. There was a whole spreadsheet floating around a few months ago categorising hundreds of games and whether or not they were "woke" and what "woke" elements they had, and the one common denominator that could reasonably be identified is that "woke" means both "everything" and "nothing" at the same time, and bore absolutely zero effect on the quality of the game.

Mongaloids on the internet point to "woke" games doing badly and scream that they did badly because of "woke", while actively ignoring the "woke" games which do well. If Clair Obscur was doing badly, they would be absolutely apoplectic that the studio went woke by having more female characters than males and most of the outfits aren't skimpy enough and so the game failed because DEI.

The only time "woke/DEI" has an effect on whether or not the game is fun to play is when people allow themselves to become so twisted up about anything that sits outside of their own purview that they cannot actually enjoy the game for what it is. That it speaks to a part of culture which doesn't represent their own. That it has female characters who look like actual females (including oftentimes the actual real life model/voice actor for the character) rather than a porn star.

I want good games too. I want games that explore themes I'm not familiar with. I want games which represent cultures/values that aren't my own. I want characters who aren't just cookie-cutter jacked-up stubbled muscle-heads and Tits Magee who needs to be rescued because she is female and therefore not strong. I love DEI.

Damn… Everyone's Interesting!

McFly85 · 09-05-2025 03:00PM

Just think of how good Papers, Please could have been if only you were a sexy anime passport clerk checking the passports of other sexy anime girls to check if they’re presumably sexy enough to get into the country.

Lucas Pope? Lucas Woke, amirite?

Retr0gamer · 09-05-2025 03:13PM

The creepiest thing about the right wingers clinging to Clair Obscura is that when they talk about the good looking characters in it they use the character that is 16 to make their point.

You don't want to be agreeing with those people.

Hoop66 · 09-05-2025 03:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123340162#Comment_123340162

I was watching that, and wondering the same. My daughter got nearly all the questions on the Zelda one. Probably only GTA I could do that with.

Cordell · 09-05-2025 04:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123432446#Comment_123432446

That's fine you don't need to convince me, more so that you seem to project on me some opinions that aren't my own. I want fun games and by that I mean fun games, not what you said in there, certainly I'm not looking for games I want to masturbate to (wt a f). And the fact I share some opinions with others doesn't mean I share all of their opinions. I'm glad Clair Obscur did so well not because of some twisted preference for underage girls (well you seem to follow these weirdos more than I do) but simply because I had lots of fun playing it and for the signal that it sent - fun games will do well. And to agree with you on something, diversity doesn't mean bad, I loved Deathloop and Death of the Outsider. The problem is more than that, it's the people who made DEI their purpose, they kill all the passion and talent and turn everything into bland boring slop that can make a HR corporate meeting seem exciting.

Retr0gamer · 09-05-2025 06:27PM

Bad game design and gameplay make bad games, not inclusivity which consultants like sweet baby don't even touch. If you don't understand that you are just parroting right wing grift which you've fallen for.

Penn · 09-05-2025 06:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123432671#Comment_123432671

"...certainly I'm not looking for games I want to masturbate to (wt a f)."

Hey I'm not the one who said he wants good games with "attractive protagonists". I mean that's a pretty specific thing to casually mention above so many of the other aspects that go into a game. But whatever you're into I guess...

Zero-Cool · 09-05-2025 07:12PM

Whippersnappers these days don't know how good they have it, we had triangle boobs and they were awesome!

Retr0gamer · 09-05-2025 08:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123433133#Comment_123433133

None of that tesselation and nurbs. Four polygons is all I need.

CastorTroy · 10-05-2025 12:10PM

Seeing pictures of Custer's Revenge. Phwoar!

Before advancing to Samantha Fox on the spectrum.

Cordell · 10-05-2025 02:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123433006#Comment_123433006

I think you don't understand my point: the kind of game dev team who goes to them is usually affected by other problems, mostly lack of talent, passion and respect for gamers. There is no need for inclusivity consultants (games are for everyone already), no need for sensitivity readers and no need for forced diversity. All of these are noise and waste of resources than hamper the creativity process.

But sure, I agree that is not consultant's fault, once the game ends up on their table it's already a turd, all they can do is polish it a bit.

Retr0gamer · 10-05-2025 02:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123434881#Comment_123434881

No, all I'm getting is that you don't understand how games are made and what these consultants do because you are just parroting the stuff you hear from outrage merchants who also either don't know what these companies do or they do know but give a false narrative because they need clicks and engagement.

Cordell · 10-05-2025 02:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123434897#Comment_123434897

I know all too well, I used to work in this industry. It was before these culture wars and scandals but even then we had interference from third party consultants and/or upper management and it always resulted in something that was less creative and fun.

RedXIV · 11-05-2025 09:08PM

To be fair, if you want to know the value of diversity in media, best example I can give is the marvel movie black panther. There's a reason it's one of the highest grossing movies of all time, the hype among the African American people, as a diversity group, was ridiculous. It translates into genuine financial reward. Lets be honest, in a capitalist's world, every action tends to eventual have a financial aim, diversity and inclusion ultimately is the same. The Nintendo Wii marketed itself as a console for the whole family, not just for gamers. It aimed for inclusivity. Its one of the most popular and successful games consoles ever.

That doesn't mean every decision to be inclusive is going to have a massive payoff but of a company releases a game where a minority feels represented, the same company releasing future games has garnered good will, which can again translate into financial reward.

Jordan 199 · 12-05-2025 07:24AM

I bought Rockstar Table Tennis last night.

McFly85 · 12-05-2025 10:01AM

Being away for a few days so I’ve had to leave expedition 33 for a while, so I’ve gone to a game I haven’t played for ages(probably since it came out), Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. I bought an Xbox specifically for this game and it didn’t let me down.

In a lot of respects it still holds up, too - classic Star Wars feel, a great villain and some memorable supporting characters with decent voice acting, varied locations and plenty of side quests. The light/dark side mechanics are great too with some comically evil dialog choices.

But the combat feels especially janky - like it was developed for a mouse and keyboard and very little was done apart from some remapping to have it playable on a console. Winning fights can feel like blind luck at times as your party can decide to run head first into battle, and trying to target someone else mid battle is a complete pain as moving a character can have them completely opt out of battle until you can get them to focus on somebody again which can be easier said than done.

Overall though I’m still enjoying it(apart from the ebon hawk shooting parts) as fights are quick and restarting is easy.

it’s definitely a game that would really benefit from a remaster. Some decent graphics upgrades would be welcome but an overall of the HUD and battle commands would make a huge difference.

Never played the Sith lords but plan to after I get through this one. I have heard it’s a lot better.

Iseedeadpixels · 12-05-2025 11:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123439471#Comment_123439471

Lmao I was only telling my 16yr old about that yesterday, apparently it used mechanics for GTA 5 and was released as a sort of test.

Retr0gamer · 12-05-2025 12:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123440090#Comment_123440090

It was a test of the Rage engine for GTA4. Its actually a really great game and the character models were better than in any other game out of the time with some very impressive sweat effects.

But the best thing about it was the consolevania sketch:

https://youtu.be/2aXgezITUis?si=x-OSdtMwTkPgaa6P

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