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Skorts.

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    If the camogie delegates continually vote against the wishes of the players, I would not call that democracy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,706 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    They have a rule that the players must wear shorts. Included in other rules is that they must wear mouthguards, unless medically exempted. Referees in all sports have to enforce lots of rules like this, and the players know it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,496 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    An association voting contrary to the majority opinion of its members is voting for its own extinction.

    Elderly, "tradition" supporting delegates appear to be the issue here and need to be replaced as delegates - delegates are by their very name delegated to represent their members, not their own desires.

    Once representative delegates exist it is unlikely they'd vote to retain an anachronism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,199 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Then perhaps the members should get busy electing their delegates rather than engaging in performative "protests".

    There is no oppression here, this is an organisation that could change this rule any time they wanted. This is an organisation that literally voted on this issue quite recently. There is a very obvious and achievable route to change for anybody that cares enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭csirl


    Can someone explain how delegates are voting against the wishes of the majority of members? How does that happen?

    Normally, in any sport, if a delegate is representing e.g. a club, the club decides internally how to vote on each item on the agenda and the delegate is given voting instructions. Shouldnt matter if they are "old biddies" or not.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭AnnieinDundrum


    unfortunately often when people are elected they see themselves as being in the driving seat and make decisions based on their own views and desires.

    and you can’t often stop them until the next election



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i was chatting to a lad who is a hurler yesterday and he says he thinks there may be a clause in the camogie association that they can't vote on the issue again till 2027.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,049 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Who elects these delegates?

    The whole story is an odd one since no one, yet, has really explained how it is that players have 'representatives' that apparently oppose their interests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭Avatar in the Post


    This is technically correct.


    But pressure is being applied. I think the skorts or the delegates will soon be gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭AnnieinDundrum


    yeah I read that somewhere too. That itself seems crazy. So they voted in 2924, it was 55 45… and they have to wait.


    surely there’s a clause in there somewhere which allows for urgent issues to be debated again.

    Also that was the delegates voting, why not just the player members? After all it doesn’t impact anyone else. Why would non player member give two hoots what they wear? In fact why should any player care what anyone else on the field is wearing? Makes no odds to them, as long as they can distinguish the team colours nothing else matters.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,867 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    An extradiinary general meeting you'd imagine would be possible.

    Might need some more pressure from the players to sway the naysayers though.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the clause probably makes sense in a lot of contexts, to prevent people from raising the same issue over and over; maybe they could call an EGM?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,068 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Not knowing the structure of the governing body but going on how others work, delegates are probably elected by the committee rather than directly by members and/or players.

    To remove a more traditional delegate would probably require the routing of the entire committe.

    I would think there are more former players and other older voting members than there are current players.

    The inertia of the voting membeship being top heavy with older, more traditional people would tend to make change difficult even if the traditionalist committee members are only being voted in due to their long standing in the club and local community. Ousting them over a single issue would be no mean feat.

    Players are in a minority in something that effects them the most. If there is a players representative organisation, outside of the camogie association, they should organise a nationwide protest, similar to that before the Kilkenny v Dublin match, before every match until the rule is changed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,706 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    As far as I know the delegates to Congress are all volunteers. Instructed by their clubs how to vote on motions. The last thing we need now is keyboard warriors tracking them down and issuing death threats.

    And no need for the politicians to haul in the paid people to inflict their usual grandstanding on them at some committee. And putting the referee in the position he was put in was not fair on him.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    don't deny AK47 his chance to grandstand on the issue!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭rock22


    There was some media coverage last year when this vote happened. My memory ( not perfect ) is that delegates were mandated by their clubs. Most members are younger and wanted to retain the 'skort' and so the delegates were mandated to vote that way. There may be a divide along age grounds, not too sure.

    A simple solution would be to add shorts to the accepted attire but i assume that also requires a vote at agm



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭davetherave


    Each Club/County/Province has an Executive Committee, comprising of a Chair, Vice-Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, Registrar, PRO, Children's Officer, Development Officer, and two delegates to the Higher Authority.


    So your local camogie club board in say Newbridge has the above as it's executive committee, with two people on the Kildare Board

    The Kildare Board would have the executive committee as outline above, chair/vice-chair/secretary… and Two Reps on the Leinster Council. The Kildare Board would also have Two Delegates from each affiliated club, and one rep each for Primary schools and Post-Primary schools in the County

    The Leinster Council has, again the executive committee (Chair/Vice-chair/Secretary… and the delegate to the High Council), it has the two reps from each county board, and a rep each for Primary, Post-Primary, and 3rd Level.

    The Annual Congress is made up of the outgoing High Council members, Former Presidents, 1 Delegate from each Provincial Council, 2 people from each of the Primary, Post-Primary, and 3rd Level Councils, and the County Boards, who send two/four/six depending on the number of clubs they have in the county. The County Boards make up the vast number of votes on the day, there's four counties that don't have boards.

    Post edited by davetherave on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭davetherave


    Yeah, there were four motions at the congress last year. Two of them were to add shorts to the list of skirt/skort/divided skirt. These were by Meath and GB. Two of them were to only have shorts, these were by Kerry and Tipp.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,341 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Most sports will have set rules on playing gear. I know FIFA doesn't allow sleeveless (AFCON does though) and cycling has rules on sock length and bans on aero attachments.

    GAA is often the outlier though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,068 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Are they pictures of the GAA Annual Congress? The Camogie Association is a totally sepatate organisation to the GAA. Have you any pictures from the Camogie Association Annual Congress?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭AnnieinDundrum


    was the skort a better bet than a skirt? Give that choice it might have been popular.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    Look at women's athletics…they wear little shorts than increase their speed and allow ease of movement. This could work for camogie...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,867 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Reminds me of a local convent school that don't allow the girls wear pants in the dead of winter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,373 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Yes I agree there are gear codes in many sports.

    Also as others have pointed out the rules are properly in place.

    They have been proposed and seconded and voted in by a majority.

    However so far in this discussion I haven't seen any reason why these rules exist.

    What rationale have those who voted to retain the skort and disallow shorts got for doing so ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,341 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It's the same bullsht "tradition" thing that governs dumb stuff like Wimbledon, cricket or golf attire although they might be more about snobbery than tradition.

    It's also common enough for the ruling body to be massively out of touch with players and fans. Look at the GAA rules on playing or hosting of foreign games which are widely regarded as lasting way longer than they should or the RFU and it's "57 old farts" as Will Carling once quipped.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭PixelCrafter


    It's not the 21st century they're having difficulty catching up with, it's more like the second half of the 20th century! What year are we living in to be having debates like this? 1955?

    Whole thing is utterly ridiculous !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,867 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Women players have been allowed wear dark underpants at Wimbledon. You'd think it was the 18th century with these ridiculous rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,373 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I suspect you may be right about it being rooted in tradition.

    However I would like to hear from skort supporters.

    After all if it's really important to ban shorts and retain skorts they should be able to explain why.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,341 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    You won't find any. Not any willing to admit it anyway.

    A few on here pretending they care about "process" or trying to discredit the idea it's unpopular but no one will be brave enough to defend it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭MFPM


    It's surreal. You have to question the delegates who voted on this issue, they seem very divorced from the views of the players.

    I had some sympathy for the ref yesterday he had little choice but to do what he did. I think there's an argument that the players should have stayed firm and forfeit the game if necessary. That may be necessary at some point.

    The need to control the lives of women is never far from many Irish institutions.



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