Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

I'm sure the money comes from the US taxpayers, not the Ukrainians. The Iraq war cost them $3 trillion.

The entire war by Russia is an illegal war of aggression

I find this type of oratory strange. Wars are usually illegal and aggressive.

We see the 50 year anniversary of the Vietnam war today and Trump has told his diplomats not to attend. The Americans were driven out of Vietnam as it was far away not not an existential war. The Americans massacred civilians and committed appalling atrocities. That was what the 'good guys' did in Vietnam. It might be worth reflecting on that fact.

The war in Ukraine appears to be viewed as existential by both Russia and Ukraine. As the poster to whom I replied did, you can pick a side and focus only on the horrors committed by the other.

2014 showed Ukrainian's committed war crimes too. There's little coverage of such now by our pro Ukraine media but it seems to be covered by Russian media.

So presenting the worst atrocities and declaring that Russians are sub humans/ orcs sounds like an Israeli talking point to me. Even the Palestinians don't say as such about the Israeli's and similarly the Russians do not use such language. To me it's obvious that peace and reconciliation would be a better approach. I don't know if such an approach is possible in Israel anymore but I reckon it's still possible in Ukraine/ Russia.

A rare win for Trump seemingly, and Ukraine. The details of the signed deal are far better for Ukraine than what was earlier proposed. Apparently, nothing up to now has to be paid back, and going forward, it's like a 50/50 split. It will give the US economic interests in Eastern Ukraine and the development of resources will bring returns to both.

It was badly-handled and was practically extortion during negotiations, but it is for all intents and purposes what Zelensky himself proposed last year before the election. Fair play to him for holding out until the deal was more balanced. Americans operating in Eastern Ukraine would effectively neuter Putin's ability to attack again.

Complaints will be made that America has a percentage now of Ukraine's assets, but frankly, they weren't being properly exploited anyway. 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. It is completely standard to sell off percentages to companies that come in and do the studies and extraction. Countries only really do it themselves if they are more centrally-controlled, or if the resources are guaranteed to be financially beneficial a la Norway.

As far as Europe is concerned, an end to the war and Ukrainians returning to Ukraine, while America handles security there would be ideal.

Your both sides view on putin's invasion of Ukraine and blatant terrorist attacks on civilians in a country they signed up to agreements to respect seems strange to me. Drawing equivalence between putin trying to build a bigger empire for moskow and the armed forces of Ukraine defending their internationally recognised borders is simply wrong and I see no evidence for atrocities being carried out by the Ukrainians that you continuously introduce to this thread along with comparisons to other wars as if these make putin's terrorist attacks currently going on in Ukraine somehow to be expected. There is no one threatening the existence of the russian federation and the prospect of it ending is simply putin's excuse for brutal attempts at empire building which should not be tolerated.

Well…I hate to load on the disppointment, but it's Thursday.

If Russians really want peace they'd stay in Russia.

But but but whatabout something some other country did somewhere else in some other century that is relevant to the current invasion and war by the merest of tenuous threads… surely that's where the real focus should be?

Indeed. However as one poster mentioned earlier, it is somewhat interesting / useful to see when such support for the Kremlin pops up in forums like these. That in itself is a lot more interesting than the content of the posts themselves.

This comes on the heels of news that the US & Ukraine have some kind of minerals deal. Now, I don’t for one second trust Donnie’s «best people» to successfully follow through on any kind of grown-up real-world government work regarding this, but at the very least such a deal will draw everything out while keeping the US in the picture with at least the perception of wanting to defend a local investment in Ukraine. This yet again pushes out the Finish Line for Putin. He really needs Ukraine to fold soon, and today’s news will create the impression that this really won’t happen soon. Certainly not this year, and that is terrible news ahead of his May celebrations. As I often say, time is Putin’s worst enemy here.

So, by all means we should welcome our Kremlin-centric friends when they pop up. It gives us at least a brief indication of the mood in Official Moscow. The more they what-about, and scream for «peace»…the more dour the likely mood in the corridors of the FSB offices.

I look at any minerals deal in the same context of cobalt/copper mining deals in Congo/Rwanda with US/Russian military contractors and a who's who of American billionaires (Gates, Musk, Amazon cnut) up to their eyeballs in exploiting the region and it's people.

Whatever minerals deal is done fcuk all will find it's way to ordinary Ukrainians.

I'd bet security will be private contractor

Again more to unpick here.

The war is not "existential" for Russia. It's an invasion of choice for them. They have chosen to invade a country which is no threat whatsoever to nuclear-armed Russia. All of which has nothing to do with Russian security - they traffick thousands of Ukrainian children stolen from their parents, they steal Ukrainian resources, force children in occupied territories to speak Russian. They have helicopters with "onwards to Berlin" written on them. They've moved troops away from the border of the newest NATO member. Even the most indoctrinated Russians know there is no threat.

In complete contrast it is existential for Ukraine. They face losing their country, their democracy, freedom, language, culture, identity, everything. They are being bombed and slaughtered for the crime of being next door to a leader who wants to reshape the map.

In 2014, Putin illegally annexed Crimea and proxy invaded Ukraine. Once again note how to ignore that and go straight to acting "concerned" about Ukrainians defending themselves - again that theme.

This isn't some spat between two countries. A powerful dictatorship is attempting to invade and subjugate and conquer a weaker neighbouring democracy that is no threat to it.

If Russia invaded Ireland in the same manner, would you be repeating this stuff? Of course not.

Also anyone who engages in this much Putin apologism and claims they just "want peace" needs a serious look in the mirror.

Oh fantastic, unlimited Korean meat for the grinder

NATO was led by the USA up to now. As the USA has effectively changed sides and shows itself no respecter of its former allies, a new North Atlantic defence force will be required.

Trump just announced a vague “50 million or more” in weapons to Ukraine

I mentioned it in parallel thread but US only imports just under 130 million a year in rare earths

They are neither rare nor valuable, Trump was sold 💩 on a stick and he’s happy, just nod along and say thank you while weapons flow resumes

How bizarre. Even as a propaganda piece, it's totally strange and unpalatable.

Trump's as likely to swing the other way next week as he is to actually to the morally right thing at any point.