Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

There wasn't one thing I said that isn't happening. Call me out if there is. I'm not painting anything or using anybodies rhetoric. I'm looking at what is happening, and the justifications for it coming out from the IDF, Israeli politicians and their supporters are absolutely nonsense.

Hamas, from what I can see, are a criminal, terrorist militia armed with automatic rifles and rocket launchers. They got into Israel using handgliders. They commited awful crimes, but such a rag tag group (compared to Israel's military) should never have gotten into Israel to cause the mayhem they did. They were lucky.

Are you somehow saying that this group, who can barely muster any defence against Israel (96% of those killed have been Palestinian), are somehow manipulating the world media and feeding us rhetoric, Vs the country with enormous sympathy around the world, backed by the world only super power? It's more nonsense.

And btw, your odd student analogy and trying to change the world comment - I'm no student let me tell you, and the world changed 70 years ago buddy. The UN, the ICJ, the ICC were all set up as a response to another "senior hurling" event, to use your words, the holocaust. These bodies are all extremely critical of, and investigating Israeli (and Hamas) leaders for crimes against humanity, and for genocide.

Since these bodies came to be, the world has seen unprecedented peace, cooperation and prosperity.

I know you are saying you aren't doing it, but the people trying to justify these awful crimes are the ones trying to "change the world", dismantle these important institutions, undermine international law to the detriment if us all, and there are people in this country blindly going along with it.

And as I said, I still have absolutely no idea why.

Why don't they just release the remaining hostages who are being held captive after almost two years?

They were doing so in February and were on course to release the rest in March. Israel had so much concern for their captive citizens that they broke the cease fire.

Why should there be ceasefire demands being placed on a country surrounded by hostile states? Although in saying that Egypt, Jordan, UAE and Saudi Arabia are part of the Arab/Israeli alliance.

You first say 'hostile' states and then go on to name the three of the four neighbouring them as part of the Arab/Israeli alliance. They've also been bombing Lebanon themselves, so not ones to be pointing fingers and crying about "hostile states".

This is a country who's citizens are being held captive as well, so again why should ceasefire demands be placed on it? Zionism in spite of what some people claim is not a racist ideology.

Israel have also been holding citizens captive.

Zionism is about recognising the Jews right to a home state in what is their ancestral homeland, and Muslims, Christians and people of the Druze religion and any other non Jewish people are welcome to live in Israel as well.

Would we readily accept the "ancestral homeland" from anyone else?

The West Bank/Judea and Samaria region was originally part of Jordan, so in a way the two state solution is already in place for those who do not wish to live in Israel.

Shouldn't the people be saying hand West Bank back to Jordan not this free Palestine nonsense, because there never was a state or country known as Palestine in the region.

"In a way" it's still not a two state solution. The "never was a state called Palestine" is an incredibly weak argument.

Israel gave the Arabs control of Gaza back in 2005 and how did it work out?

This is an intentionally disingenous statement. Israel only allow a certain level of control; they certainly have not given any Palestinian people control of everything in Palestine and operate an extremely restrictive level of control over the people there.

So taking all that into account and considering that sacred sites to Judaism are in West Bank, i would not be in favour of Israel surrendering control of it. It will just be another Gaza mark two scenario imo.

Israel would bomb it and commit various war crimes there too?

Admittedly the following are not my own words but anyway.

Genocide is the systematic extermination of a people, not because of what they’ve done, but because of who they are. When Muhammad ordered the Jews of Banu Qurayza to be lined up, and slaughtered 700 of them in a single night, that was genocide. When ISIS stormed into Yazidi and Christian villages in Iraq, massacred men, enslaved women, and turned girls into sex slaves, that was genocide. When the Nazis rounded up Jews, forced them into gas chambers, and burned their bodies, that was genocide. The common denominator in every genocide is that the victims were slaughtered not for anything they did, but because their existence was unacceptable to their oppressors. When Hamas terrorists stormed into Israeli villages, slaughtering 1,200 people, men, women, children, elderly, burning families alive, beheading babies, raping and butchering women, shooting civilians in their beds, that was a Genocide.

They hunted civilians down, house by house. They went into bomb shelters not to escape bombs, but to execute families hiding inside. When Israel fights back, when it retaliates to eliminate the same terrorists who committed genocide, when it fights to rescue hostages, when it takes military action against a terror group that hides behind civilians, that was not a genocide. Genocide is what Hamas did on October 7. War is what Israel is doing to stop Hamas from doing it again. Those who have been marching in the streets, screaming “genocide” are nothing more than blind followers who have no idea what they’re saying. They chant slogans fed to them by terrorists, acting as puppets in a propaganda war they don’t even understand.

Probably both, or do you believe Hamas are up front and uniformed?

Good stories buddy. We just have to abandon reality, facts and common sense to believe it.

Where do the following acts - that I list off the top of my head - fit into your narrative?

* IDF blockading food to all in Palestine.

* IDF blockading aid to all in Palestine

* IDF using 2000ibs bombs on tents (in open ground) that they corralled civilians into (multiple times)

*IDF targeting every hospital and school in Gaza, including maternity hospitals, with bombs and missiles

* IDF arresting doctors and medical professionals

*IDF murdering paramedics, and claiming they were terrorists

* IDF cutting off all power to Gaza

*IDF targeting journalists in Gaza, and refusing international journalists entry to report on the conflict. This is the deadliest war for journalists in the 21st century

*IDF forcibly displacing the population of Gaza

*Israeli politicians openly saying "none are innocent in Gaza".

*Israeli politician (house speaker) openly calling to separate women and children and kill all adult males

*Israeli politician (minister for justice) calling for Palestinians mothers to be killed and their homes raised, lest they raise more terrorists.

* Israeli politicians calling to enact Trumps plan to remove Gazans from their homeland (and using this as a reason to break their ceasefire), and annex the territory

*Israeli politicians and the IDF breaking a ceasefire they negotiated, and resuming bombing civilians, hospitals etc, coincidentally around the time corruption trials were due to happen, and the government was about to be collapsed by anti Gazan extremists. Hamas leaving Gaza was an agreed part of the ceasefire

* Similar levels of murder and land grabbing occuring in the West bank (where Hamas do not operate and there are no hostages). Calls by deputy house speaker to turn Jenin into "another Gaza".

* Senior Israeli politicians wanted by the ICC for war crimes/ crimes against humanity. Icj find genocide claims plausible

*Palestine is the most dangerous country in the world to be a child

*Palestine is the most dangerous country in the world to be a woman

*Israeli settlers violently stealing land, expelling the rightful owners, with impunity (breaking international law)

*50,000 odd people killed, 80% woman and children

*A city of 2 million people completely destroyed

What do you mean took part?

The ceasefire ended because Hamas stalled the release of the hostages. Hezbollah a group that wants to destroy Israel operates out of Lebanon.

Israel only allowed a certain amount of control over Gaza? What are you on about they forcibly removed their own people out of there.

In fact the civilian population in Gaza were given so much control they put a terrorist organisation into government, that committed the biggest mass slaughter of the Jewish people since the Holocaust, and you say then that the people in Gaza were only allowed a certain level of control!

It almost as depraved as burning people alive in their own homes and beheading children eh? Of course there's good and bad people everywhere, but Israel is the Jewish peoples ancestral homeland and they have every right to live in it in peace.

Amnesty International’s research has found sufficient basis to conclude that Israel has committed and is continuing to commit genocide against Palestinians in the occupied Gaza Strip, the organization said in a landmark new report published today.  

The report, ‘You Feel Like You Are Subhuman’: Israel’s Genocide Against Palestinians in Gaza, documents how, during its military offensive launched in the wake of the deadly Hamas-led attacks in southern Israel on 7 October 2023, Israel has unleashed hell and destruction on Palestinians in Gaza brazenly, continuously and with total impunity.  

“Amnesty International’s report demonstrates that Israel has carried out acts prohibited under the Genocide Convention, with the specific intent to destroy Palestinians in Gaza. These acts include killings, causing serious bodily or mental harm and deliberately inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction. Month after month, Israel has treated Palestinians in Gaza as a subhuman group unworthy of human rights and dignity, demonstrating its intent to physically destroy them,” said Agnès Callamard, Secretary General of Amnesty International.  

Some of them = the slaughter of tens of thousand of woman and children because Israel is a sick and depraved country. They masturbate over the bloodlust Israel perpetuate

Founded by terrorism and govern by terrorism

So that's your excuse for the murdering of 20K children, average age 5 years. Disgraceful.

It was the 'excuse' that was reported to the Press after Oct 7th so that the Genocide could begin. Swallowed big time in the US.

Well yes Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis are all terrorist proxies of Iran. What's that other thing you people say about Israel being a so called apartheid state?

Well Jews, Christians, Muslims, Druze, people of other religious faiths and also LGBT people reside in Israel. Would a Jew or Christian or person who identifies as a member of the LGBT community be welcome in Gaza or parts of the West Bank?