Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Israel says that Hamas are holed up in tunnels. Have you not heard that before?

I agree with you, it does seem Hamas fighters are invisible as they are used as justification for every single atrocity the IDF have carried out.

Did Hamas operate from every single building in Gaza? Because they are all destroyed - a city of 2 million people reduced to rubble. Did Hamas hide behind all the tens of thousands of children that the IDF blew up? Are they hiding in all the tents that Israel drops 2000ib bombs on?

What you (and the IDF) are saying makes absolutely no sense. If Hamas have a network of impenetrable tunnels, why would they set up a command centre in a non fortified school or hospital, that can very much be destroyed.

I know. Not BB exclusively, but it's difficult not to post when the people pushing this pro IDF narrative seem to base their views on illogical nonsense.

Its apparent that many posters here have abandoned their morals en masse in supporting IDF brutality - everyone has different morals I suppose - but for some reason I find the mass abandoning of logic, reason and common sense even more frustrating.

Generally speaking, when this crowd are met with posts scrutinising the logic of their views, they scurry away for a few days and never address the points either to themselves or to the wider group, so I'm always left scratching my head saying WTF. Oh after they call us antisemites for questioning them, that is.

So we are never any closer to understanding why they are supporting this slaughter - is it hatred of Muslims, some type of militant empathy for Jewish history, fear of job loss in a US company, conspiracy theory inclined people? I'm on this thread for months and am no closer to understanding it.

Israel seems to be run by outright extremists - as bloodthirsty as any Jihadis - their words and actions point to this - it's insane some Irish people are supporting it blindly.

I believe that there are no robust arguments to justify anything Israel is doing - hence the tumbleweed for any reasonable discussion/argument.

So all that is really left in my opinion is for supporters of Israel drop in a kind of drive-by post or two.

And in fairness, I think that is a shame.

I do think there is value in at least having some kind of discussion about what the future looks like. I firmly believe that Israel and Israelis have an absolute right to safety and security. As do the Palestinians. It's certainly not intractable but like our own experience in this island, it will not (nor has been) easy.

But it must be sorted or we'll all be here again in a few years bemoaning Israeli and Palestinian deaths.

There are definitely a few posters leaning toward Israel who have made valuable contributions.

Who'd want to post in fairness. There was a poster roasted here last night for posting about a protest he seen as pointless at rte yesterday.

Some more details on the 15 murdered medics - seems there might be an MP investigation, or maybe not…

The IDF unit responsible for the killing of 15 aid workers in Rafah last month received a report about increased ambulance traffic shortly before the incident, materials collected after the incident showed.

According to these materials, some of which were submitted to the IDF operational investigative teams and the IDF General Staff investigative team, the soldiers fired at the vehicles continuously for three and a half minutes – even from point-blank range – reloading their ammunition multiple times, despite attempts by the aid workers to identify themselves.

This information was provided to Chief Military Prosecutor Yifat Tomer-Yerushalmi, who is reviewing the testimonies and evidence collected in the probe to determine whether there is a basis for opening a Military Police investigation into the incident.

Three very interesting reports here.

Yep - infants are terrorists and so are solar panels serving a hospital.

Ben-Gvir, possibly the most inhumane member of that cabinet is clear that food and aid depots must be bombed - a war crime and might land him in The Hague with his mate Gallant.

On the subject of gallant, seems he might be softening his cough to get leniency from the ICC? He clearly states that a Hamas tunnel was actually a water channel. Confirmation of the incessant IDF and Israeli govt lies to justify their genocide.

IDF struck solar panels on the roof of the Al-Durrah Children's Hospital in eastern Gaza, damaging the hospital's alternative energy system and its intensive care unit. Rescue services in Gaza reported that 10 people were killed in an Israeli attack on a school housing displaced persons in eastern Gaza City, adding that the fatalities included infants. The IDF and Shin Bet later said the strike targeted "a gathering of terrorists operating within a Hamas and Islamic Jihad command and control center."

Far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir, visiting the U.S., posted on X that he "had the honor and privilege of meeting with senior Republican Party officials at Trump's Mar-a-Lago." According to Ben-Gvir, the officials backed his "clear position on how to act in Gaza and that the food and aid depots should be bombed in order to create military and political pressure to bring our hostages home safely."

Former Defense Minister Yoav Gallant told Israel's public broadcaster that a photo publicized by the IDF last August from the Philadelphi corridor in southern Gaza, portrayed to the public as a tunnel, actually depicted a water channel covered by dirt. The photo was publicized at the height of protests calling for a hostage deal, and while Netanyahu was trying to persuade the public that Israel could not relinquish control of the Philadelphi Corridor as part of an agreement with Hamas.

Wonder what's going on in Clonskeagh.

As you're aware, if I started a new thread, I'd be accused of 'news dumping'. Plus the search facility here is fecked. If you want to point out the most recent thread to do with Islam in Ireland, I'm more than happy to post the relevant newslink there.

Folk who are not in the 'Palestine Bandwaggon' should not really be labelled as "pro Israel".

Genuine queries on the reportage from Gaza should be treated robustly of course, but it seems that a snowstorm of

opposition from the usual quarters are what can be expected .

Bit like the crowd out in Jobstown at the water protest shouting "peaceful protest" whilst trapping people in cars and waving phones in the law enforcement peoples faces.

I would definitely agree the israelis are bad as Hamas now. Hard to know when this madness will end. Trump's plan looks more and more likely to happen.

Setting morality aside - discussing facts and logic and using reason isn't a "Palestinian bandwagon". Facts and logic are in their very nature neutral. If one side is constantly lying, making ridiculous claims, and being caught out (i.e IDF, Israeli politicians) - facts, reason and logic may hurt them more, but that is the way the cookie crumbles.

If you are trying to tell tell us that Hamas have command centres in every hospital, school, and house in Gaza (which have all been bombarded to rubble) when they have an impenetrable network off tunnels far underground (according to Israel), then to my mind you are abandoning logic and reason, and I don't understand to what end.

When you disregard that Israel have blockaded and are starving the whole population in Gaza, you are not being reasonable when you say they are only after Hamas. Ditto when you ignore Israeli politicians calling on the IDF to separate women and children and kill all adult males, calls for mothers of terrorists to be killed and their houses raised. Ditto when you ignore that they are at the same thing in the West Bank, where Hamas don't operate.

Omitting all of the above, and ignoring logic and reason in justifying the murder and maiming of tens of thousands innocent civilians because of "Hamas control centres", is definitely pro Israel, and very very blindly so.

I don't understand why you believe this is justified - can you explain it to me?

No surprise. The IDF has changed its story on another incident of murder over a month ago. But all is good seeing as they "regret it".

The IDF said that Israeli tank fire killed a UN staff member in Deir al-Balah on March 19.

Shortly after his death, the IDF claimed that reports he was killed by the Israeli forces were incorrect. However, following its own investigation, the IDF said it regrets the "serious incident." 

According to its statement, the staffer was present in a building which was not identified as a UN facility, and was believed to host an "enemy presence."

Ben-Gvir, the Israeli National Security Minister (and convicted terrorist) repeats his desire to "bomb food warehouses" and added that Gaza should be "ethnically cleansed".

Meir Kahane was a convicted terrorist. His "Jewish Defence League", a terrorist group, routinely posted graffiti in Israel stating "Gas the Arabs".

No wonder Gvir idolises him.

Just remember this when the auld "from the river to the sea" line is trotted out by Israeli supporters.

Israel's far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir, on an official ten-day visit to the U.S. during which he has failed to secure any meeting with Trump administration officials, was met with a pro-Palestinian protest outside an event in New Haven at which water bottles were lobbed at him. Ben-Gvir later tweeted, "To the pro-Palestinian protesters at Yale backing the Nazis in Gaza – we will win." According to attendees, Ben-Gvir told the audience that racist demagogue Meir Kahane had "some good ideas," that Israel should bomb food warehouses in Gaza and that the "deep state" is out to silence right-wing dissent.