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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Not entirely sure India is laughing, choking on their smog more likely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭poop emoji



    electricity prices going up despite very low and falling oil and gas prices on markets



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It says. "Suggests" "may face" the "threat" .

    That's a lot of if maybes...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Gut our huge oil, gas and coal industries is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,606 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I would not see anything to suggest if there is a fall in electricity prices it will be due to renewables

    Our generation from renewables was the E.U. average for 2024, yet our electricity prices were the highest in the E.U.

    renewables_in_electricity_generation_2024.jpg 700px-Electricity_prices_for_household_consumers,_first_half_2024_.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Even though it's been explained many times about wholesale prices. I can't but still help it's just price gouging.

    In theory smart meters should have allowed people to change their schedule to have cheaper electricity. But having tiny windows of cheaper electricity almost entirely offset by increased day rates feels again like anti consumer tactics.

    The idea of reducing our enery emissions footprint has merit. But it's been hijacked by profiteering time and time again.

    Someone mentioned EVs which still has merit but again it was highjacked with diesel gate and manufacturers profiteering on EVs and warranties. Govt lack of incentives and unchecked anti ev misinformation helped to damage that momentum. But it still rolls forward as it's just makes sense, for many, just not everyone.

    It's all compounded by misinformation at every turn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,839 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    In theory smart meters should have allowed people to change their schedule to have cheaper electricity. But having tiny windows of cheaper electricity almost entirely offset by increased day rates feels again like anti consumer tactics.


    image.png



    Everyone has time based tasks or activities that must be completed and combined with ad hoc tasks. There are few people who can adapt their lives around cheap electricity rates. Typical families with children have to get up each weekday, have breakfast , be on the road on time, drop kids off at the creche/minder/school, get to work, collect the kids on time, cook, heat the house, prepare to repeat next day. All that requires energy to be expended. You can see this reflected in the daily demand curves for electricity. As a mass deployment it would only make sense as a trade off between cheap batteries/cheap rates so you can use the power when you need. Adding batteries to a house or premises adds risk, complexity, installation and maintenance costs. Operating costs + future replacement costs must be recouped from savings by the time the batteries need to be replaced to make any economic sense.

    image.png


    Misinformation from various unreliable electricity generation lobby groups claims wind and solar energy collectors are cheaper than thermal plant generation, using levelised cost of electricity (LCOE) as their metric. LCOE has everything to do industry profitability, however, nothing to do with the calculation of end user billing for electricity use. The metric completely excludes the cost of installing and maintaining extra support infrastructure, balancing and constraint costs due to adding more unreliable generation to the grid. The lobby groups like to issue press releases when the wind blows or sun shines, they were silent when they failed to supply electricity during the period in January above when Ireland hit record demand.

    On an electricity grid, supply must always meet demand otherwise the system becomes unstable, disruption like experienced in South Africa, or Lebanon. Why electricity prices are so high in this country? supply must always match demand. Thermal plants consistently provide a quality product (on time delivery that meets the specification), while generation from unreliable sources are a low quality product, yet the operators are paid premium markup.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Batteries have nothing to with running a disk washer or washing machine or charge a car, or heating your water, OFF peak. These are things that majority of people can adjust to.

    Its got nothing to do with how the energy is generated. If the companies don't pass savings, we'll never move forward. We are only seeing progression due to increased competition in the market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,335 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    We are only seeing progression due to increased competition in the market.

    What do you mean by this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,839 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Time is key, tasks and chores must be completed on time. Everyone gets up around the same time and arrives home around the same time, the demand graph illustrates the daily routine clearly. Electricity must be consumed when it is generated and it is more expensive to produce at peak time. Without an efficient, economic means to store electricity when it is generated at cheap rates, smart meters pricing plans only benefit those who can afford to revolve their lives around those. If you want to wait until the weekend to run your appliances on the cheap, the trade off, you must have more clothes or dishes to get you through the days until you can operate the appliance. If the practice becomes widespread, the cheap rates disappear, demand is higher, cost of production goes up, electricity supply must always meet demand.

    I see a trend of more people putting subsidised solar panels on their roof, one guy near where I live, put 24 panels on a south facing roof, except there is a hill behind the house and during the Winter, he is in the hills shadow. His neighbours property have lawson cypress trees on the west side of his house. Which means he gets the peak generation around midday from now until October, when he is not home. As the earth rotates, later each afternoon, he is on the shadow of the trees, the yield drops. Would love to know what capacity factor he is achieving. Without batteries that expense makes no sense to me. The network operators will eventually apply export tariffs like operators in Australia and the United States, more batteries from China and South East Asia will be needed.

    The only progression is the trend in upward only prices.

    image.png

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,265 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    See the problem is doesn’t make sense for people to change from diesel to EV if they already drive a debt free diesel but also have to travel more than 50kms in one trip, which is a hell of a lot of people.


    Same as it doesn’t make sense to spend 80k+ to retrofit your home so that you can then justify running heat pump which would be cheaper than a gas boiler (possibly).

    People don’t want massive amounts of debt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Many are falling to match each others lowest price. While keeping higher tariffs (even increasing some) for customers who don't shop around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,839 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande




    Laws can and will be changed. There is wiggle room in the Lisbon treaty, should the Irish state or others choose.

    Such measures shall not affect a Member State's right to determine the conditions for exploiting its energy resources, its choice between different energy sources and the general structure of its energy supply, without prejudice to Article 192(2)(c).



    With all the recent focus on the the recent American administrations push on tariffs, there is another overlooked impact from EU policies that must eventually affect pharmaceutical production in Ireland, the decline of the chemical industry across EU and once Great Britain. Lack of economic supply of raw materials will end production here.

    The report looks at how the EU’s chemical industry compares competitively with the US, China, Japan, Brazil, India and the Middle East, and the main cost and non-cost drivers for competitiveness in Europe. It concludes that the competitive position of the EU’s chemical industry has weakened on both cost and non-cost factors, including high energy, environmental and regulatory costs, through to administrative hurdles around innovation and human capital. The latter often resulting in delayed investments or decisions to invest outside of Europe.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    There are lots of different plans. If someone can't see past batteries and cooking all their food on Sunday they'll just go around in circles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Why do these same people pay the same money for a newer fossil then 🙄

    50km, you could drive that every day for a week in a modern EV before you'd need to spend 10seconds charging it for another week of driving, pure nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Theresa myriad of factors causing the issues with the chemical industry from COVID, Brexit, "...due largely to soaring gas prices following Russia's invasion of Ukraine in 2022..…" state actors funding industries in other countries. Often with very poor safety record.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,265 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I don't think you read/ understand what I said.

    People who have a debt free perfectly working diesel won’t get themselves into debt (ie take out a loan) to purchase an EV to save a few quid on electricity vs diesel.
    It wouldn’t make any sense!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Nobody is asking them to. These same people take out loans to buy more expensive and more expensive to run fossil cars all the time though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,265 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Not really.
    Plenty of people happily driving debt free cars.
    Not sure why you don’t want to accept that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I've no idea what that means. No one buys a smokey old diesel to go 50k. Why not buy a new one? Does no one buy new ICE cars? How on earth are they 85%+ of the cars on the road..

    What % of people on this thread have a heat pump?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,265 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Plenty of people just keep driving their debt free diesels with no issue.
    Theres not much point in taking out a loan to buy a new car when your old cars working perfectly- in fact it’s probably the most environmentally friendly thing to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Not entirely sure why you're denying over 100k new cars sold every year in Ireland. Or why you're claiming they are all unhappy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,265 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I don’t remember anyone saying people were unhappy?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Some say fumes from the old smokey diesels can effect memory. Doesn't sound too environmentally friendly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,265 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Sure dude.

    You obviously have an axe to grind against Diesel drivers so I’ll leave you to it. Enjoy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,335 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Cool. I thought ya were hinting that since we opened our market to competition, prices have fallen due to that

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2025/0418/1508392-energy-prices-nesc/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,839 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    image.png

    Yeah, multiple bad decisions (Covid lockdowns, Green policies, and war, all compounding, leading to a policy of "degrowth" and deindustrialisation, or, if you prefer EU officials euphemism "beyond growth". China is the nation with the worlds largest chemical processing industry. Rest of the world is moving on with or without EU states. In Brexitland, the end of this sentence is a pretty tacit admission that renewables cause prices to go up.

    Last night, a Government spokesman said: “We have a plan to make Britain a clean energy superpower so we can end our energy insecurity, and we are bringing energy costs for industry closer in line with other major economies by fully exempting eligible firms from certain costs linked to renewable energy policies.” source

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I was talking about the nonsensical electric plans which are designed to not drive people to off peak usage but rather to increase profits from them. Dishwashers and Washing machines. It's got nothing to do with any net zero but simple profiteering.

    You came in swinging old diesel. While there are merits to diesel. I wouldn't lead that revival with old diesels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Kinda just completely ignored Russian debacle supplying Europe with gas or Brexit effect on UK trade there. None of that had anything to do with renewables and had a vastly bigger impact.

    The problem isn't renewables it's globalisation. Nothing they can do will fix that. That train has left the station a long time ago. Making renewables the patsy is deluded.

    China and India will win any trade war in that industry. A Bhopal type disaster in France or the UK isn't an option.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    When they rolled out smart meters the plans made no financial sense. Hence the adoption was dire. Look at the options now and they smart plans now mirror the non smart plans. That's quite a change.



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