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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 243 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    I don’t think I agree with that anymore, I mean just read the PR team of the week

    https://www.planetrugby.com/news/champions-cup-team-of-the-week-absolutely-immense-jordie-barrett-stars-while-englands-impudent-rising-star-delivers-mighty-second-half-performance


    Fair play for having the stones to do the right thing and name Prendergast at 10 but all they have to say about his performance is “he had an armchair ride”…it’s quite clear there is an agenda from a large section of fans/media that are doing their best to downplay any positive input Prendergast has but then exaggerate how bad he was when he wasn’t at is best, with the best example of this being the England game in the 6N.


    You honestly think of Fin/Marcus Smith played in that Leinster team and had the performance Prendergast had they would have kept their thoughts on his performance to “ah sure, he found a few gaps and kicked well”…bloody hell, they said more positive things about Fin in the “other mentions” part… no talk that Northampton got an armchair ride there of course conveniently…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 538 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    My point was merely that both 10’s, Sam & Crowley, are excellent prospects, neither are perfect, neither are shocking, and performance varies game to game week to week so no clear run away winner to the balanced / unbiased viewer. No drama, and good for Irish rugby as it makes them both improved athletes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 243 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    I agree with all that. My main issue which I’ve never understood is did Sam do something in a past life and is paying for his sins now, as the level of criticism he’s receiving from certain sections of the media/fans is so vile it’s almost like they feel personally offended if Sam plays well or receives any sort of positive feedback on his performances and will use any excuse possible to minimise how well he played…I mean reading this team, after all Sam did throughout the game if that was a fair and balanced review I would have liked to have thought they would have come up with something a lot better than “he shone with his kicks and in finding gaps”…after going on about his “armchair ride”.

    When you consider the level of bile that was dripping from the British media’s mouth anytime Marcus Smith did anything, from throwing a pass to tying his shoes, to see them now trying to tear down a player for being “overhyped” I find hilarious for the lack of self awareness present…irony is certainly not lost on them!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,523 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I don't doubt there is some vile stuff posted about Prendergast on social media etc. but this…

    10 Sam Prendergast (Leinster):

    He had an armchair ride with the forward dominance his pack delivered but he shone with kicks from hand and in finding gaps.

    …is hardly it, right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,185 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Yeah I don't see anything wrong with that. I read that and it sounds like he had a good game.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 243 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    I think you know as well as I do that this is just a microcosm of what’s been reported by the media in many quarters.


    Could that review be anymore vague and minimal…almost like “sh!t, we have to come up with something nice to say!” And even then have to throw in the “armchair ride” part at the beginning, back handed compliments more like it.

    How about talk about how great he was at releasing the backs and marching the forwards around? Kind of like how they reported on Mr Golden Boy in the honourable mentions section…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,485 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I didn't see the game. How did he do defensively?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 243 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Made 6 out of his 9 tackles, pretty good I’d say!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,485 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    He definitely has a good game then because that has been his weakness.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,029 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Absolutely obsessed with some imaginary taunting by the 'British media'. Give it a rest. And look up 'bile' while you're at it.



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    New update on the funding model for the IRFU, with the provinces now expected to find up to 40% (up from 30%) of the cost of a player, with the extra funding being used to pay for player pathway initiatives in Munster, Ulster and Connacht.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 535 ✭✭✭CONSI


    Lets not pat Humphries on the back too quickly on this, and it doesnt come in till 2026. Leinster have what 12 central contracts (and this isnt leinster bashing, they have the better players), average say 400k each. thats 4.8m, under the 30% rule they had to fund 1.4m themselves, this moves it to 1.9m, so 500k…thats one game moved to croke park for leinster, and thats only 166k per province, so not a silver bullet to make the other provinces competitive



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,029 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Made a few tackles, shirked a few, usual stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Is there a silver bullet to make the other provinces more competitive? Something obvious and immediate that everyone in every province will be delighted with? If so, you should put it in a proposal and said it to the IRFU immediately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Just to clarify two points, in case people don’t actually read the detail in the announcement.

    It won’t come in until the start of the 2026/2027 season,

    And it’s only for Nationally Contracted Players.

    Furthermore it will be in constant review each season along with a review into how effective their investments are across the board.

    This is a small rebalancing of a portion of the Central Contract budget that won’t hurt Leinster very much but will help the National team in the long run if it helps produce a few more players outside of Leinster.



  • Administrators Posts: 55,019 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    500k cost to Leinster is significant. That's Snyman and Barrett.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,481 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    The devil will be in the detail. What will the pathway initiatives be? It certainly implies someone has come up with a better idea than the academies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 538 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Funding the academies and altering the talent selection & development programs I suspect. Leinster has proven the academy system is world class if implemented correctly by adequate funding, staffing, and raw talent



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,029 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I think we should just ban the GAA or merge with the IRFU.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 262 ✭✭darkened_scrum


    What ones did he shirk?

    I think you said in another post you'd put up some clips of him refusing to tackle or running up out of the line beyond play or something, any sign of those?



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,029 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I don't have a working stream online but if you can get hold of the match, at 3:13 he runs out of the line, tags a Glasgow player around the waist, allowing him to offload under no pressure and stay in the attacking line.

    At 18:27 after TOB's kick is charged down, Rowe goes down the wing and Prendergast, instead of melting him over the touchline, sort of runs up to him and gives him a little tap and gets fended to the ground.

    At 38:55 he comes out of the line early but makes the tackle, from behind, after initially falling off it. Not much wrong with that, given the outcome.

    At 41:15, on his own clearing kick, runs up at Steyn and again sort of claps his hands instead of making a tackle. In fairness to him, he runs back into the line, Horne sees him and picks and goes while Prendergast again runs up past him and pats him on the back and grabs him as he goes past. Horne does go down but he's already made the offload and Glasgow gain 10 metres.

    Maybe it's a legitimate tactic of his, as on 51:30 he again runs up past the ball carrier rather than hitting him head-on in a dominant tackle. He grabs him from behind and takes him down with a pseudo hip-drop. This gives up 5m and clean ruck ball for Glasgow when the chance is there to stop him dead and maybe force a knock-on.

    This one is a bit fuzzy on the video I have but at 51:48, instead of dropping into the defensive line he stands beside the ball carrier and I think his own team-mate knocks him over making the tackle. I'm honestly not sure what he's trying to do - maybe a choke tackle? He did seem to be trying to hold players up by the waist a lot of the time and he does complete a choke tackle about 50 minutes in, albeit with help from Barrett. JB grabbing a Glasgow player by the waist and carrying him 5m into touch (54:48) is maybe what he's looking to do but just doesn't have the strength or technique for. If I'm being generous, running out of the line might be an attempt to mimic Ringrose/Henshaw/Barrett but it's a bit pointless without the actual tackle.

    None of these in isolation, particularly in such a cake walk of a match where Glasgow had very little attacking ball, takes away from what was a superb performance in attack. It would be remiss to gloss over it though, and stronger opponents won't let defenders away with that much.

    Watching it back, Barrett was even better than on first viewing. He was absolutely everywhere, cleaning up after other players' mistakes, a monster in defence and attack.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,730 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    You could make every province more competitive if you gave the same number of central contracts to each province. Obviously there would be other issues like 14 doesn't divide equally by 4 so you would change to 12 or 16 resulting in 3 or 4 per province

    There's the obvious issue that you'd be artificially weakening one province. Unless the IRFU decided to go for 44 central contracts (highly unlikely) this would inevitably result in some of the top Leinster players leaving to play for one of the other provinces. Leinster would effectively be down 7 or 8 of their current crop, or have to fund them like they do Snyman and Barrett.

    The upshot is you would likely have a stronger national team and more equality among the provinces.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Why would you have a stronger national team? Giving the same number of central contracts to each team is just awful logic. You'll have completely substandard players on them in one province and exceptional players elsewhere not on them.

    Forcing Leinster to lose players like e.g. Keenan, and hoping they choose to move to Munster or Ulster instead of just leaving Ireland is not a good strategy.

    Improving the development paths for the other provinces is a very good approach. But it will take years to bear fruit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,730 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I never said it was a good strategy only that it would make every province more competitive.

    And on reflection I should actually correct that to say it would make 3 of the other provinces more competitive

    A stronger national team would be the result of a better mix of talent at the provinces which would help to improve the talent already on offer. A case of surrounding yourself by better players to become better yourself. The added talent at the other 3 provinces would eventually reap the rewards

    I'd imagine there are plenty of Leinster players that would rather play for a French or English club than to play for another province and plenty of supporters that would have their stomachs turn at the thought of e.g. Keenan donning their provinces jersey so yes it would be a big risk on multiple fronts if the IRFU were to implement such an idea

    But in response to the question "Is there a silver bullet to make the other provinces more competitive?" that's one way they could go about it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I don't buy it. I mean, the IRFU aren't going to do that anyway, but if a player from Leinster needs to go to another province to get a central contract, I'd bet that they'be be asking themselves "do I really want a CC?", especially if they can get not vastly less money on a PONI contract.

    It also wouldn't work for Ulster as they'd be more likely to stay down South on a standard contract, knowing they'd make more money over their career from getting their Irish tax rebate than they would moving to take up a CC in Ulster.

    I also have to say, as an Ulster fan, as much as I love Cooney, Timoney, young Jack Murphy et al, I want more, better Ulster players. Every now and then someone talks about a draft system - as a lifelong supporter of a province which would probably benefit greatly from importing young talent from such a system, I don't want it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Sorry - was responding to @Red Silurian's first post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    We've enough discourse already about too many Leinster players in the Irish team...

    Can you just imagine a majority of Leinster players in the Munster team



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭ersatz


    How much would it cost to fund players attending one of the rugby boarding schools, 30 or 40K for 4 years? Newbridge, Clongowes, Blackrock, Rockwell, Kilkenny and one or two others. Most of these schools already produce players that feed into academies, it seems an obvious one to identify young talent from around the country and fund their education. <ost of these schools don't recruit afaik, or of they do it is with already notable players at 15-16 years old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    That's lot of disruption. There's bound to be better ways to spend the money. Also, you're just folding other provinces' youth into the Leinster system rather than improving theirs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,481 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    This needs to be about finding more and better players from the three provinces. Pumping more money into the same systems and diverting more Leinster players to these provinces aren’t solutions.

    Hopefully there is a genuine plan to develop new pathways.

    On an unrelated note, it’s interesting that a province will be picking up 40% of the cost of a contract with no input into the terms of that contract.



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