Lets not pat Humphries on the back too quickly on this, and it doesnt come in till 2026. Leinster have what 12 central contracts (and this isnt leinster bashing, they have the better players), average say 400k each. thats 4.8m, under the 30% rule they had to fund 1.4m themselves, this moves it to 1.9m, so 500k…thats one game moved to croke park for leinster, and thats only 166k per province, so not a silver bullet to make the other provinces competitive
New update on the funding model for the IRFU, with the provinces now expected to find up to 40% (up from 30%) of the cost of a player, with the extra funding being used to pay for player pathway initiatives in Munster, Ulster and Connacht.
Absolutely obsessed with some imaginary taunting by the 'British media'. Give it a rest. And look up 'bile' while you're at it.
He definitely has a good game then because that has been his weakness.
Made 6 out of his 9 tackles, pretty good I’d say!
I didn't see the game. How did he do defensively?
I think you know as well as I do that this is just a microcosm of what’s been reported by the media in many quarters.
Could that review be anymore vague and minimal…almost like “sh!t, we have to come up with something nice to say!” And even then have to throw in the “armchair ride” part at the beginning, back handed compliments more like it.
How about talk about how great he was at releasing the backs and marching the forwards around? Kind of like how they reported on Mr Golden Boy in the honourable mentions section…
Yeah I don't see anything wrong with that. I read that and it sounds like he had a good game.
I don't doubt there is some vile stuff posted about Prendergast on social media etc. but this…
10 Sam Prendergast (Leinster):He had an armchair ride with the forward dominance his pack delivered but he shone with kicks from hand and in finding gaps.
10 Sam Prendergast (Leinster):
He had an armchair ride with the forward dominance his pack delivered but he shone with kicks from hand and in finding gaps.
…is hardly it, right?
I agree with all that. My main issue which I’ve never understood is did Sam do something in a past life and is paying for his sins now, as the level of criticism he’s receiving from certain sections of the media/fans is so vile it’s almost like they feel personally offended if Sam plays well or receives any sort of positive feedback on his performances and will use any excuse possible to minimise how well he played…I mean reading this team, after all Sam did throughout the game if that was a fair and balanced review I would have liked to have thought they would have come up with something a lot better than “he shone with his kicks and in finding gaps”…after going on about his “armchair ride”.
When you consider the level of bile that was dripping from the British media’s mouth anytime Marcus Smith did anything, from throwing a pass to tying his shoes, to see them now trying to tear down a player for being “overhyped” I find hilarious for the lack of self awareness present…irony is certainly not lost on them!
My point was merely that both 10’s, Sam & Crowley, are excellent prospects, neither are perfect, neither are shocking, and performance varies game to game week to week so no clear run away winner to the balanced / unbiased viewer. No drama, and good for Irish rugby as it makes them both improved athletes
I don’t think I agree with that anymore, I mean just read the PR team of the week
https://www.planetrugby.com/news/champions-cup-team-of-the-week-absolutely-immense-jordie-barrett-stars-while-englands-impudent-rising-star-delivers-mighty-second-half-performance
Fair play for having the stones to do the right thing and name Prendergast at 10 but all they have to say about his performance is “he had an armchair ride”…it’s quite clear there is an agenda from a large section of fans/media that are doing their best to downplay any positive input Prendergast has but then exaggerate how bad he was when he wasn’t at is best, with the best example of this being the England game in the 6N.
You honestly think of Fin/Marcus Smith played in that Leinster team and had the performance Prendergast had they would have kept their thoughts on his performance to “ah sure, he found a few gaps and kicked well”…bloody hell, they said more positive things about Fin in the “other mentions” part… no talk that Northampton got an armchair ride there of course conveniently…
Our attack was poor overall, but more from execution, rather than being outright abject. We generated entries and scoring opportunities, but were very inefficient converting them. Think to VdF cutting in vs England when he had acres of space between him and the line.
I thought Prendergast played very well in the system, with how he created openings and gaps to put players through. His passing was excellent, in its accuracy and range. His kicking from hand was overall strong. He has incredible range, and is accurate with his line drives. As we've seen since then with Leinster, he's very capable of being a lynchpin for an effective attacking system. The game on Friday was one of his best to date, where he did a better job backing himself to take the gaps that the defense offered to him. Given his ability to delay passes to the last second, having that capacity will make his attacking game all the better, as defenses will have to account for the possibility of him running. That was a major (unjustified) criticism of him.
Personally I wouldn't be highlighting Ireland's attack in the 6Ns as a positive. For anyone involved. A few good moments but overall I thought it was pretty average.
Agreed that the pack will be the winning and the losing of any game.
Broadly this yeah. It took Leinster the guts of a season to get used to the system and even at that it's even a season and a half til we've seen the attack catch up.
Of course there is nothing inherently unusual about running different systems at club and country level but I suspect the sheer volume of leinster players in the Ireland team complicate things slightly.
We were also just changing playstyle quite a bit and sometimes it just doesn't work off the bat.
I’d say it’s mixture of coaching and Leinster trying to play a different type of game, especially in defence which led to people not being quite as fluid and comfortable as previous years. Think Farrell off won’t have helped but actually think in the long run that may also be a good thing as the bubble has been burst and they can reset now in autumn.
Sooooooooooooo. Why did Ireland form drop during this Six Nations? Players all doing well following the conclusion of said competition. Coaching and tactics would be my assessment. Defence and Attack.
Sure but it was one game. And he'll be far from the last player UBB make look a bit silly at time.
No matter what the strengths of a player they will have the odd game where it goes to pot. I don't think it's either indicative of much or really a fair way to comment on it.
Now in contrast I've completely changed my opinion on who is the stronger goal kicker.
The full context being that was a discussion comparing Crowley and Prendergast in that individual game. I literally said as much earlier in the thread,:
To be fair, I was responding to a request to compare them exclusively on this game.
And engaged in the discussion and gave plenty of reasoning throughout the whole thread. For example:
The place kicking, the stats bear that out. Tho Prendergast showed character to respond and convert the most difficult of his 3.The kicking from hand is much more qualitative, naturally. But, especially early on, even Prendergast's long exit kicking looked aimless, and allowed England territory and field position. He rarely hit grass, iirc (tho I’d have to watch it back). Crowley’s had one or 2 too long also, but contestables seemed much more… contestable. Bear in mind this is one area that it was seen as Prendergast outright having the upper hand on Crowley.
The place kicking, the stats bear that out. Tho Prendergast showed character to respond and convert the most difficult of his 3.
The kicking from hand is much more qualitative, naturally. But, especially early on, even Prendergast's long exit kicking looked aimless, and allowed England territory and field position. He rarely hit grass, iirc (tho I’d have to watch it back). Crowley’s had one or 2 too long also, but contestables seemed much more… contestable. Bear in mind this is one area that it was seen as Prendergast outright having the upper hand on Crowley.
That's the context. That's literally the opposite of the exact same thing. The exact same thing would've been posting a 2-liner like the following:
Prendergast down for a 33% kick success. I thought his point of difference was his kicking?
(Word count: 192, I'm disappointed with myself).
I'm sure you'll write a thousand word essay about how it's in fact totally different but here's you doing the exact same thing.
Whatever about anything else, his first touch absolutely was an outstanding clearance kick. It was one of the best clearance kicks of the game. And I’d go as far as saying that every one of Crowley’s kicks from hand were better than all 3 of Prendergast’s kicks in the opening 10 minutes.And again, this is an area where, supposedly, Prendergast has the upper hand.
Whatever about anything else, his first touch absolutely was an outstanding clearance kick. It was one of the best clearance kicks of the game. And I’d go as far as saying that every one of Crowley’s kicks from hand were better than all 3 of Prendergast’s kicks in the opening 10 minutes.
And again, this is an area where, supposedly, Prendergast has the upper hand.
Aside from the completely subjective judgement of how good/bad/indifferent the kicks were, Prendergast didn't have an off day, oh no, he "supposedly has the upper hand" on Crowley when it comes to his kicking from hand.
So to answer your question, you certainly seem to think it's credible.
Imagine Prendergast has an off day from the tee and someone posted this:
Prendergast down for a 46% kick success. I thought his point of difference was his kicking?
Would that be credible? Cos that’s exactly what you’re doing. If you had come in and said “Crowley with an unusually poor defensive performance this weekend, it’s normally his point of difference” I don’t think anyone would’ve had an issue.
I don't think Prendergast is as good a defender as Crowley, nor did I state that. The dogs in the street know it's an issue for Prendergast.
But if one guy is meant to be this great defender, and one of the reasons for picking him over the other guy is his tackling/defence, and he then goes and misses 7 tackles in a game, it puts a fair old dent in the argument for picking him.
It's like if Prendergast suddenly couldn't kick snow off a rope then similarly it would be a serious issue for the argument for selecting him, it's one of his USPs and one of the major reasons for picking him over Crowley.
I don't think either of them get disproportionate hatred on here; there's plenty of non-good-faith posts to go around from all angles these days, alas. Which is why I think portraying one side as squeaky-clean and the other as purveyors of "horsesh*t" is just plain wrong.
I also don't understand why you think anyone is obligated to "call out" anyone. Or why you need to use such emotive language; what kind of reaction do you expect?
Also, who the 10 was ranks fairly far down the list of the potential issues Ireland had this season.
The handbags in here is something else.
The most depressing thing about it is that from the age and talent profile, we've potentially got another 13 years of this ****.
I would suggest that focusing on one comment by one person is not all that useful or indicative of the general conversation.
Mind you, focusing on one game where Crowley missed a lot of tackles to suggest there isnt a fairly massive gap in their defensive abilities is a bit silly also. I'd be shocked if SP ever reached his level defensively. It's a pretty corrosive way to argue anything and smacks of just pouncing on a chance to denigrate a player.
I think the criticism of SP is wildly over the top but he's also the starter so he's bound to get more. He can't do anything about playing behind the leinster pack except utilise that to its fullest which he is doing a very good job at.
I see you are incapable of answering my very simple question of who gets more disproportionate hatred.
Just as I suspected. Someone else not interested in having a conversation.
When you start calling out those who chat sh*te about Prendergast, I'll entertain what you have to say. However you're not. You're happy to let them do it.
For the OP to blather on like being overly and unrealistically positive about Prendergast is an overriding theme of this board is absolutely untrue. I'll stand by that.
Don't bother replying back to me unless you answer the very simple question I've asked above.
It’s entirely legitimate to ask you if you think Prendergast has been “the best 10 in Ireland, and it’s not even close”.
Because that doesn’t at all tally with: “On the whole, he has been fine. Nothing more, nothing less.”
And completely disproves your assertion that “I'm sorry but for you to say some are overly or unrealistically positive is absolute horsesh*t.”
It’s literally the definition of overly and unrealistically positive.
You believe Crowley gets as much hatred (and that's exactly what it is) as Prendergast?
If you say 'yes', then you're either lying or you're not actually paying any attention.
It's painful watching people bend themselves over backwards to slate Prendergast even after he plays well.
Go back through my posts and find any post where I have slated Crowley disproportionately in my defence of Prendergast, and you'll see that I am not one of those very few.
Now, I feel you are attacking me rather than my posts, so I'm going to stop replying.
Good night.
Crowley has had very good days and a fair number of meh to poor days, yet there isn’t the same level of criticism of him on here. Prendrrgast has generated a fair amount of resentment for unexpectedly quickly taking the jersey off him which was a done deal as far as the 6N goes. Desperate people were resorting to appeals about deserving and not deserving things which we all know is absolutely irrelevant in sport. It’s also harder for Crowley to make his case because Munster just aren’t as good as Leinster and he doesn’t get to marshal a spectacularly good team. On balance there’s not much between them putting unknowables like ‘ceilings’ aside, but Predergast is going to have more big games and more big wins for the foreseeable. That doesn’t help extinguish resentment.
