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Random Running Questions

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Appletart Upsetter


    Almost zero. So that's likely where improvement is likely to be found?

    I was never particularly quick when I played sport but was hoping my endurance when running at pace would have improved by simply being fitter. I don't think I have a sub 20 minute 5km in me but I just like to set small targets to improve to keep things interesting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 155 ✭✭BP_RS3813


    Being lighter can make you faster, not always.

    5k racing and marathon racing are basically two seperate sports, to do a good 5k you need to do 5k and below specific work (1mile,1500 and 800 too).

    You need strong muscles in order to take the landing force and not get injured. No point in being super light but getting injured - we are not 5'5 60kg kenyans unfortunatly.

    I'm 183cm and 73/74kg and would be considered on the heavier side in terms of runners who I train with (Most are 15-17 minutes for 5k) . At one point I was 68kg but it was too light for me, I was unhealthily thin and was always sore after training. Had to do lots of S&C work and build up the leg muscle.

    I doubt weights the issue though as I know a lad who is 82kg and my height ish and runs below 17, as a hiker you were probably mostly in zone 2. Do you ever do zone 4/5 or anaerobic work? Thats what will get the 5k times down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Appletart Upsetter


    Thank you for all of that, especially the info around weight. I probably don't need to worry about that too much. I used to be around 75kgs when I was hiking a lot, I'll aim to get back there.

    My preference is to run 10ks and 20ks so should I focus on that and not worry too much about 5k pace? I don't do a lot of zone 4/5 work, I'm not really sure what that is!

    Running is about getting exercise and feeling healthy for the most part. I won't be entering too many races/events. But naturally, if you keep trying to improve it keeps your motivation levels up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,228 ✭✭✭✭event


    Yes you will need to train fast to race fast. 200m intervals, pyramids, tempo etc. Have a google and look up a few you like the look of



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Appletart Upsetter




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,947 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    Before you go off doing intervals and speedwork, can I ask if 5:40/km is your usual pace? Would you do any runs at 6:30/km for instance? And how often are you running each week?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    What does a week of your training look like - how long, how often, what effort level? Are you following any kind of structured plan?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Appletart Upsetter


    Yes, I tend to run between 5:30/km and 5:40/km on runs above 10k. I appear to be fairly consistent there. I haven't done a 6:30/km in a long time, usually thats with my partner.

    For shorter runs, 5km to 8km I might be closer to 5:00/km to 5:15/km. I don't have any real structure to what I do. Last week I wanted to do a 2 longer runs (17k & 12k). This week the plan is to do 3 shorter runs (4k, 6k & 8k)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Ok, there's way more important things to address than adding anything like speedwork/intervals. You're falling into the trap that almost all novice runners do and doing all of your running way too hard. As a general rule of thumb: 80% of your running should be at an easy pace. "Easy" is a broad definition, but one of the simplest is that you should be able to easily hold a conversation throughout the entirety of the run.

    If you're doing a 4k, 6k, and 8k this week, only the 4k should be at anything close to 5:00/k pace. The rest should be much closer to 6:00/k pace or even slower.

    I would suggest looking at a structured plan to bring you up to the half-marathon. Hal Higdon's training programs are popular and straight-forward. Make sure to read the accompanying notes, don't just grab the plan and start into it. The type of runs are actually explained in detail, and you should understand the reasons behind each type of run

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Appletart Upsetter


    Thats great, thank you.

    The plan was to do something structured in the 3 months leading up to the half marathon. I'll have a look through those plans you suggested.

    I made the assumption that if I felt comfortable running a 5k quickly, then I would carry some of that speed into 10ks and 20ks and improve my times there too. I guess it doesn't quite work like that!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭TheRef


    I'd suggest you look at the layout of the different plans here: https://www.defy.org/hacks/calendarhack/?d=2025-09-07&p=frr_5k_02&s=1&u=km

    You can quickly see how the focus is different between a 5k plan and a half marathon plan in terms of structure.

    Also, look here: https://vdoto2.com/Calculator for an idea of paces for the different types of runs. The wikipedia page for Daniels gives a good overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Daniels_%28coach%29#Training_intensities of each type.

    Over the past few weeks I've also spent way too much time with Google Gemini (and particularly the Deep Research). As an example, ask it about the differences between Pfitz (most of the plans I linked to) and Daniels (the calculator) training paces and tell it all about your current paces.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Appletart Upsetter


    Cool. Thank you.

    I'm probably doing most of my running in the Marathon Pace according to Jack Daniels. I need to slow down a little!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 155 ✭✭BP_RS3813


    10k and upwards is more mileage/zone 2 steady stuff. Speedwork/anaerobic work is not really as important the longer the race.

    Zone 4/5 is sharp interval work - (16 x 400 45 seconds recovery @3k pace for example),

    A favorite 5k session of mine is as follows:

    2 x (1k,800m,600m, 2x400m, 4 x 200m)

    75 seconds jog recovery between reps. 3 min walk recovery between sets.

    Keep in mind that I am a track runner so some of my advice won't be applicable to you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 898 ✭✭✭marathon2022


    Slower and more running will get you to the line, enjoy it and then think about speed work after. Its quite common to do 5k and 10k blocks preceding a longer race plan but not usually for beginners.

    Do the simple things

    Run often

    Run slow

    Don't increase your distance too quickly

    The 80/20 rule is not a bad guide, I find doing 20% in hard, high intensity effort range to be challenging even when I'm fit.

    24 minutes is a fine 5K time, your in good shape. Best of luck



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Appletart Upsetter


    That all sounds very sensible. Thank you.

    I didn't expect the advice I'd get from everyone was to start running slower when I asked my initial question!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 155 ✭✭BP_RS3813


    For reference, my 5k time is 19:55 and my slow zone 2 stuff is done @5:40 - 6:00 per K ish. Sometimes my recovery runs are even slower @6:30 per K or so. That works out at 1:41+ difference per K between zone 2 easy stuff and my 5k race pace.

    Unless your a very very elite athlete, there will typically be a huge difference between your 5k pace and your zone 2 easy runs. Your easy runs are awfully close to 5k/Threshold pace by the sound of things. Slow it down - a LOT. Give 6:30+ per K a shot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Appletart Upsetter


    Yes, it appears I've been pushing much harder than I need to.

    I do like pushing though!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,764 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Yes, pushing is valuable and necessary, but only when that’s the point of the run. Use that 24 min 5k time to work out the appropriate training paces from the likes of Daniels or McMillan, add some structure (follow a set plan) and you’ll soon see the rewards. Good luck!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Appletart Upsetter


    Thank you for the very helpful info everyone. Much appreciated.

    I might even enjoy my running a little more going forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,692 ✭✭✭DeepBlue


    paceplus.png

    After upgrading my phone I see the Pace+ app is no longer available on Android 15.

    I found it very useful. Is there a comparable app that has the same or similar functions?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 134 ✭✭Trevorfromtheshoppingcentre


    Does anyone here have a cap on their weekly mileage? I’ve been following Garmin’s daily suggested workouts for Cork Marathon and it seems determined to ramp up my mileage.
    I know this is the conventional wisdom more miles is better, also wisdom is to increase slowly. I’ve found I’m just feeling a bit battered since hitting 50ish miles a week and needing to take enforced rest days. I think I will aim to max out around 40 for the rest of my training block.

    Sorry for the rambling question but I’m just wondering if anyone else here follows a less is more approach or has a cap to their mileage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 898 ✭✭✭marathon2022


    As there is only 5 weeks to go I would say ignore the Garmin and hit the basics, only you will know if other than the actual running/ training your rest, sleep, diet, biomechanics or even micro injuries are contributing to this tiredness.

    Feeling battered is part of most marathon plans, if you have to drop in milage maybe try alternate a step back week, something like 50 - 40 - 52 - 38 - taper leading in. Sticking to the basics of 1 long run, 1 interval/tempo session, and the rest easy mileage or cross-training gets you over the line.

    Best of luck in the race



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Hedgehoggy


    I'm returning from a hamstring injury and was looking to incorporate some running drills into my weekly routine

    Looking for advice on recommended drills for improving my stride/efficiency - I have never done these before so we're talking the basics really - the what, when, how, how often etc.

    I'm time poor when it comes to these things and I don't think I can build drills into my "hard/fast sessions" as these tend to be my longest session of the week and generally need more time commitment - Is it possible/worthwhile doing drills as a standalone half hour, add into an easy run?

    If anyone has any good links that would be great!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 155 ✭✭BP_RS3813


    In my experience you should be doing the drills as part of your warmup routine before you start the speed session.

    I do them as a standalone/incorperated into my S&C sessions once a week too. Rest of times I always do them before any hard effort (10k or below pace stuff).

    20 min easy 2 miles, 10 minutes of drills and stretching followed by 3-4 100m strides is my warmup.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 155 ✭✭BP_RS3813


    More miles can be better although keep in mind law of diminishing returns.

    Personally I cap my mileage depending on what I am training for.

    When I'm training for 800m/1500m I usually do 25-30 miles a week and feel great. When I did a 5k block it was 40 miles and I struggled a lot with muscle fatigue. You might get fitter but higher risk of injury and you will feel worse off week to week



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Hedgehoggy


    Thanks - I have seen this recommended. I would find it difficult to be able to get a full 30 minute warm up before a speed session (maybe that's why I've been injured!!!). Is it pointless doing running drills outside of this or would there be some benefit to doing an independent session / drills + easy run?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 155 ✭✭BP_RS3813


    Not doing a proper warmup before a speed session will increase chance of injury compared to not doing a proper warmup.

    I do drills as part of my S&C sessions - I keep easy runs easy (I might do a stride or two depending on what I have coming up), Won't do you anyharm anyhow to incorporate them into your routine whatever form that may take.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Hedgehoggy


    I will definitely be paying more attention to S&C in the future. I hadn't really thought of adding the drills to S&C - Thanks for the input!



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