Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

What was quite galling is the reporting in the western media 'video footage appears to show differences to the Israeli account of how the medics died'. If this was Ukraine, nothing from Russia would be reported as fact and actual evidence would be presented and Russian spokespeople / apologists would be questioned about how the video evidence exposed their blatant lies.

I finally found a website that reproduces the Haaretz report on the Netzarim corridor.

I recall reading it last Christmas. "Disturbing" doesn't come close, "revulsion" is still not enough. Here is one small passage - the link to the full story further below (a must read if you want to be fully informed):

Another fighter describes witnessing four unarmed people walking normally, spotted by a surveillance drone. Despite clearly not appearing as militants, a tank advanced and opened fire with its machine gun. "Hundreds of bullets," he recalls. Three died immediately ("the sight haunts me," he says), while the fourth survived and raised his hands in surrender.

"We put him in a cage set up near our position, stripped off his clothes, and left him there," the soldier recounts. "Soldiers passing by spat on him. It was disgusting. Finally, a military interrogator came, questioned him briefly while holding a gun to his head, then ordered his release." The man had simply been trying to reach his uncles in northern Gaza. "Later, officers praised us for killing 'terrorists.' I couldn't understand what they meant," the fighter says.

After a day or two, the bodies were buried by a bulldozer in the sand. "I don't know if anyone remembers they're there. People don't understand – this doesn't just kill Arabs, it kills us too. If called back to Gaza, I don't think I'll go."

Their attitude appears to be that anyone in uniform in Gaza is a legitimate target. This is doing nothing to dispel the idea that Israel is a racist, apartheid state.

Nobody ever said anything about the entirety of the Ukrainian population vacating their territory.

But carry on trying to make stupid equivalences in an effort to justify ethnic cleansing. An ethnic cleansing you'd, no doubt, love to see happen.

and demonstrably they do

So true. They have done it before. The UN offered to carry out a full and independent investigation into sexual violence carried out by Hamas on Oct 7th. The UN added that they would also carry out an independent investigation into sexual violence carried out by Israel in its own prisons against Palestinians. Of course, Israel declined.

Given their allergy to the truth and propensity to lie, no-one trusts any investigation carried out by Israel into anything - dubious actions carried out either by the IDF, Settlers, politicians or their enemies. They even lied about attacking UN Peacekeepers in UNIFIL.

It must be very very uncomfortable being a supporter of Israel right now. Terrorist State, World Pariah, led by alleged War Criminals (on the run), perpetrator of Genocide, proven consummate liars.

I am in the midst of a moral dilemma.

I can destroy two people's lives over their obscene support of what is happening in Gaza. Former friends for over a decade (who are not Irish) but they live where I live with fake documents and I have the contacts to report them and they would be deported / banned from the country. (Not Ireland / EU / US etc.)

It's been my overriding thought these last few months, battling with the idea of reporting them and making them suffer the forced movement they think Gazans deserve. It would result in them losing where they have called home for practically their entire adult lives.

From deep down my soul, I think they are horrible people. It isn't just a political difference. I am best friends with people I disagree with politically on other topics. But this feels different. I completely and utterly despise them. It's wild how this conflict can bring such strong emotions.

For context, I've been falling out with them about this for basically ten years. Way way before October 7th. It's a long-running thing that causes blowups and breaks and resuming of friendships, but I don't think there are any more renewals of friendships happening.

I guess I most-likely won't do it but their views are on par with the worst of the worst you would see on this thread. They despise Irish people even though they are friends with them, because of our country's stance, which I am very proud of. They literally despise me, or at least what I happen to stand for as an Irish person.

Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed.

Well being Cato the elder, you would.

Both sides are about as good as the other, that is the truth.

You won't find Palestinians building illegal colonies on Israeli land.

Heinous war crimes & planned ethnic cleansing . How much longer will the world stand by? It is shameful all the killing Israel has carried out for so many years

Iran is the worlds only Persian Shia state yet I don't recall anyone giving them a Get Out Of Jail card because of it.

Like the way most people just want Israel to stop expanding outside it's borders.

It's war on Gaza seems far more akin to "venting spleen" than a military action with clear targets.

One thing that is doing damage to Israel's credibility is who they are friends with : Trump, Viktor Orban and Marine Le Pen.

Giorgia Meloni, to her credit, is a big critic of the terrorist state and wants nothing to do with them.

You know that when all your neighbours hate you then you have to realise at some stage that you are the problem. Israel is the bully boy of the region with nothing but murderous intent and a genocidal nature.

The borders are the borders. If they're - as you say - "militarily indefensible" then why is the Israeli state filling the occupied territories with 'civillians' and not border defences and military bases?