Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Where do you think the PCBS gets those numbers from? They don't have access to Gaza. Hamas would be the only source they could obtain those numbers from, and I take anything coming from Hamas with a pinch shovel load of salt.

So give us your number of innocent civilians then.

The innocent people in Gaza—I have no sympathy for Hamas terrorists—died because of Hamas’s actions.

No one has ever said that the actions of Hamas have not had and effect. To simplistically put all deaths down to the actions of Hamas without any reflection on Israeli actions is blinkered at best but wilful misunderstanding is more evident as you go on.

Hamas killed and captured hostages on October 7th, and their refusal to release them and surrender, along with their long-documented use of human shields (even before October 7th), is the reason for these deaths.

Israel captured thousands of Palestians before and after Oct 7th. Their continued usage of unjustified of incommunicado detention, used to arbitrarily detain Palestinians indefinitely without charge/trial and or access to legal council.

To be absolutely clear, I hold Hamas and its supporters responsible for all of this suffering and death—not the people of Israel, not the Israeli state

You seem to have again just picked up on this recently, without countenance of what was happening from 1948 to Oct 7th 2023 no wonder you still don't understand.

not the Israeli state that was forced into this war,

"Forced in to this war"….nothing to do with the Palestinians forced into settlements. Or forced out of homes as/when the Israelis decide?

and certainly not the innocent people of Gaza who have died and continue to suffer at the hands of Hamas.

And here's the biggest issue of your nonsense - Most have dies at the hands of Israeli military action.

The victims of the October 7th terrorists attacks and the innocent people of Gaza, who have endured and continue to endure immense suffering at the hands of Hamas, are the victims of this war.

No one has said otherwise. You think you are making some profound statements but they're not answering any of the points you've continuously been pulled up on.

Not a single response to my UN Watch video.

I responded. You know I responded. But you still needed to make your grandstanding "not a single response" to add weight to an every failing argument.

As I mentioned earlier, he hit the nail on the head. His point applies to most of the pro-Palestine posters on this forum, as I noted last week.

You just can't see that it doesn't apply; you just want it to apply.

There is a big difference unfortunately.

My support for the innocent people on both sides of this conflict, for the state of Israel to exist, for the people of Israel to live in peace, and my hope that the innocent people of Gaza will experience the peace and prosperity they deserve once they are free from Hamas,

Just free from Hamas…..Nothing to do with how Israel treats them… Everything they've endured up to October 7th 2023 you were ok with?

From 2007 - 2023 Israel bombed and/or invaded Gaza seven times, killing almost 4,000 Palestinians.

They destroyed homes, schools, universities, hospitals etc. When the people of Gaza tried to rebuild them they were destroyed by Israel again. Given that they operate an air, land and sea blockade of Gaza, rebuilding (never mind day to day life) is monumental task each time.

Let's be honest for once, you've not support for innocent Palestinians, that much is very clear.

will always remain my firm foundation.

You mean, you've put your fingers in your ears and won't deal with anything other than what satisfies your narrowminded view.

Others here appear to have a more combative mindset, unfortunately.

A differing opinion and backing it up is not "combative"; people just aren't buying the flimsy arguments you seem intent to fall back on without even considering their point(s). It's your way or everyone else is simply 'combative'. Unfortunate indeed.

'A Beacon of Democracy'. 'A shining light for the world to follow'. I saw this written about Israel. Nobody in their right senses would think that now that it has become the world's best murder machine.

We are seeing a diluted version of it right here in realtime, and it's remarkable (to me)

It's crazy to see in this thread what I assume are otherwise normal people being so aloof, or even supportive of some of the worst and most awful actions I have ever come across in my lifetime.

Children, mothers, fathers, who are all as loved as we love our own, being mowed down, blown up and horrifically mistreated - tens of thousands of them - and I still can't get a decent answer or logic as to why this is happening, why we shouldn't care about it, or for the cruelty and slander that some of the posters engage in.

There is little in this world that makes me as cross as clicking ingo this thread, I don't know why I keep coming back in. The behaviour of some on here is as remarkable as it is depressing.

Just saw this man on newsnight. An Irish hero. I wish I had an ounce of his courage.

Ok, so you're not "on the left" so presumably you aren't one of the people going to Hamas rallies with placards pronouncing "LGBT = Let's Go Bomb Tel Aviv" or "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be Free." Perhaps you are not on the Left or an Islamist, but it must be borne in mind that much criticism of Israel comes from these types and they don't care how Israel behaves, who is in charge etc, they just want it destroyed. Full stop.

Now, you mentioned the Russo-Ukraine war and compared it to the Israel-Palestine conflict.

They are similar in that both were caused by a larger powers (Russia and Iran via its proxies) looking to exterminate smaller ones (like Ukraine and Israel) beyond that, there aren't really any similarities.

Ukraine's history dates back to the Kievan Rus in the Middle Ages sometime, that of "Palestine" dates back to the 1960s, before which the disputed territories were Jordanian (West Bank) and Egyptian (Gaza Strip), and BTW both were much larger back then. The Russo Ukraine war also has nothing to do with land, as Russia has more than enough already and its capital is not anywhere near potential enemy territory. Also, Ukraine had no history of attacking Russia and there was a grand total of zero evidence that Ukraine posed any threat to anyone or anything in Russia in any way shape or form. And you don't have an alliance of Leftists and Islamists calling for Russia's total destruction. The situation for Israel is diametrically opposed to Russia's in basically every conceivable respect.

One other difference is that Ukrainian refugees are easily finding sanctuary in other parts of their home continent, would-be Palestinian refugees are not having such good fortune resetting in other parts of West Asia.

As for "Jews being a hive mind" the fact is that there are less than 16 million Jews in the world and almost half of them have their fate and destiny tied with the State of Israel and their fellow citizens therein. There's nothing honourable IMO about joining the Leftist/Islamist dogpile on them.

The problem with conflict is there are always going to be innocent people, women and children caught up in it. I'm aghast myself at what people are capable of. But the reality is that what's said and written is not the worst thing, the actuality of the situation on the ground is a nightmare. Israel , Gaza, Ukraine, they are probably the worst situations. But there are many other conflicts going on. And the most vulnerable are women and children always.

Wouldn't disagree with anything you said - and tbh my knowledge about what is going on in Sudan and Myanmar is almost zero, it could be similar to this situation. I'll read up on it at some point, though I fear I have reached my fill of misery.

My one small issue is describing this situation as a "conflict", though I accept it is a valid word for it. I may not be correct in definition, but conflict in my mind brings to the fore two sides fighting and some proportionality.

From what I can see this is a massively well equipped army wantonly blowing up tens of thousands of civilians, starving them en masse, destroying their homes, their medical facilities etc -wiping their way of life - and using a terrorist militia who have no real means to fight back as an excuse for it. The casualty figures overwhelmingly back this up.

I'm sure Russia would love to do to Ukrainians what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. But the Ukrainians have an army who are bravely fighting back, many of the most powerful countries in the world are funding them and sending arms, there are sanctions being put on powerful and wealthy Russians to cripple their industries and luxuries, and many countries in Europe are tooling up to dissuade Russia from keeping this going. All rightly so imo - as sad as it is to see peaceful countries veering somewhat towards war - keeping things proportional saves lives and deters bloodshed, particularly against the vulnerable people you mention.

Israel gets none of this treatment. It does what it wants, and the world is funding it, enabling it, and burning down the institutions we rely on to keep the worst of humanity in check, to accommodate them to do it.

This is the worst year in history of UNICEF for childhood and female violence as your article states - but its worth noting as has been posted many times here - this war is the leader in all these shameful statistics. Gaza is the most dangerous place in the world to be a child, a woman, and aid worker, a journalist etc.

These are all shameful and abhorrent things that we all, as Irish people and as human beings, should be railing against for the good of us all.

This is the only conflict I have ever seen where Irish people are actively standing behind or supporting such awful destruction and murder, setting aside their common humanity and then engaging in slander against those who disagree - including their own country, it's politicians, misrepresenting its history, with zero facts to back up their views. It is absolutely bizarre and very sad because the cost of these extremist views are the lives of men, women and children in Palestine.

There'll be lads here soon to castigate the gentleman. Didn't they turn against our Government and President for going against the genocidal Israeli regime already in the thread. These lads are anti truth.

They have no answers because there are no viable excuses. What they do is disappear for a period and then come back and hope you'll forget to ask them again or else they'll just ignore you.

I actually heard that interview with the Israeli ambassador. She has the same old mantra in all her interviews '' Oct 7th blah blah blah …. Hamas.'' It really is all they have.

Of no surprise at all to those following the shenanigans of those rambunctious IDF soldiers:

IDF reserve soldiers vandalized property in the Dheisheh refugee camp in the West Bank on Wednesday. Video clips on social media showed soldiers overturning furniture and beds, emptying closets, and spraying graffiti inside homes over pictures of Mecca and of Yasser Arafat. They also sprayed the Israeli flag and Arabic inscriptions on houses' walls. No steps have been taken against any of the soldiers involved.

No argument there on my part. It's a one sided war at this stage. Probably not even fair to call it a war anymore, or for a long time now. Its just wanton slaughter at this stage.

Egypt havent done enough to help Gazan refugees. Despite being right on the doorstep of this masscre, and having plenty of cash, enough to build magnificent new multi billion dollar capital city skycraper projects.

So shame on Egypt.

Why single out Egypt? And what would you have them do?

They've certainly supported ceasefire efforts and have issued a plan for the rebuilding of Gaza.

What do you think about Israel? They've not helped the Palestinian refugees.

A video, discovered on the cellphone of a paramedic who was found along with 14 other aid workers in a mass grave in Gaza in late March, shows that the ambulances and fire truck that they were traveling in were clearly marked and had their emergency signal lights on when Israeli troops hit them with a barrage of gunfire.

The latest IDF lies exposed, I think we can confidently say this is a awful warcrime now. These people and their defenders are sick

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-aid-workers-deaths-video.html