Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Read OP for mod warnings before posting*

Absolutely pathetic and waffly spoofing from Harris there.

The same guy who hasn't stopped gushing about that Netflix tv show doesn't give two figs about an actual rapist coming into the country and raping a young woman.

Clueless or doesn't give a crap. Take your pick. Its not important to him.

So Ben was able to ask the question most people wanted an answer to and all he got from Harris was 2 mins of waffle before he literally ran away.

I see there were RTE and Newstalk mikes there as well but no fear they would ask him about it.

The left are the opposition who are supposed to hold the government to account.

Now they will shout about housing and health all day long but when it comes to immigration not a peep out of any of them.

"the scenario you posted without proof ."

It's ironic you say that seeing as that statement you continue to discuss (🙄) is similarly without proof .

That is my point and why I don't accept it.

If you have proof that what he said is true then produce it .

Otherwise it is as I said before just a political wheeze .

Its the adaptation of the word "progressive" the abandoning of conservative values that has a vacuum in irish politics, like most of Europe that will eventually be filled by actual far right parties. It is weakness in policy areas influenced by alturistic/progressive thinking. The idea that we are so morally superior in our attitude that we would "cut off our own arm" to save the world.

Where do you think the 50,000 asylum seekers that came into Ireland in the past 3 years are going to live after they leave IPAS centres ? And the 18k coming this year? Where will their families live after reunification? How will we fund all of this..

That's an easy one. Pavee point is the first one to jump on the bandwagon if there is anything at all related to discrimination about travellers but remarkably silent on the thousands of horrendous court cases and the massive over representation of travellers in Ireland's crime statistics.

The below article is remarkable when you consider the billions spent every year feeding and accomodation alledged Asylum seekers and the complete lack of deportations even after AS have committed violent crimes and had their claims rejected.

Call made in joint statement by 30 civil organisations, including Irish Refugee Council and Focus Ireland

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2024/05/29/stop-punching-down-and-scapegoating-vulnerable-asylum-seekers-government-told-by-ngos/

The Irish medis is still reflexively pro mass immigration as are all the major universities. Only recently have some began to question the status quo as the bills mount.

Where did I appeal to moral superiority?

And again, the reference to the "suicidal empathy of the progressive mindset". What does that even mean? And if it's a real thing, then why aren't non-progressive countries better places to live? Why is it that progressive countries tend to perform better on the broad metrics of things that make life more open and enjoyable?

And yes, everyone knows we have had an influx of IPAs — the background context of course being the loosening of global travel restrictions post-Covid which also coincided with the largest displacement of people in Europe since the Second World War — and also happened to be Ireland's first real experience of sich an influx. Yes, I know there are many people here on this thread who would have managed that to perfection, but it's not like the spike in IPA numbers was wholly unique to Ireland.

And yes, integration is good. But nobody here ever actually talks about integration do they? There are no positive forward looking visions set out here for how we engender a sense of belonging and unity for the foreign born population and their children. It's all just endless prophecies of an impending civilisation apocalypse — all while some white American guy with an orange face is doing more to tear down Western civilisation than the countless migrants going about their daily business peacefully and productively.

Suicidal empathy is the belief that we as a people are so morally superior and charitable that we can house, feed and clothe every poverty stricken, war fleeing, persecuted person in the world to the financial, structural and societal detriment of the people of ireland who foot the bill. Which we as charitable people might do if the numbers were not having a significant impact on the services and communities and if 100% of that number were genuine asylum seekers and not 80% economic migrants.

Its reflected in every political debate about immigration pre election and epitomised by aodhan o riordains indignation this week at being met by immigration officials coming off his plane from Brussels, to dublin he describes such actions as "Trumpian" not a very progressive thing to do. There's many examples on here of government officials like housing minister darragh o brien calling questions on immigration an affront to social cohesion. Michael Martin on the BBC saying we didn't vet any Asylum seekers from Ukraine etc

In 2017 2018 2019 we had an average of 3500 IPAS we had not the services and housing shortage we have today. The pull factors referred to many times have allowed us become a desired destination for asylum claims there's no other explanation for the increase to a country on the periphary of Europe. Integration of immigrants becomes a hell of a lot harder when the numbers are high when the influx is from 10s or 100s of countries with different societal and cultural norms to ours. Again saying that doesn't make me or anyone racist. It's an objective fact that all cultures are not equal.

This is a thread about immigration not about the "white guy" with the orange face wrecking the world. If Trump didn't exist our immigration problems would still be our immigration problems. But kudos to you for bringing up the bad "white man" as the villain.

I outlined what I was going to use the example for and you picked Pavee point.

So lets continue as i outlined in my previous post.

Can you outline one occasion when pavee point has chilled the debate on immigration?

What specifically about this occasion you outline did you feel chilled the debate on immigration?

I wonder is this one of the lads who might actually have come here via a UN scheme. As much as I don't want the scammers here, and not always the case but sometimes the lack of proper English, can trip them up and they say things that can be turned against them.

But refugee or not, he definitely isn't Irish.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-41043746.html

"Can someone explain to me why those lives aren’t worth saving? Why isn’t saving a life, any life, a decent use of taxpayer money?"

A prime example being you yourself not a goose but a morally superior …………. who then returns to childish insults rather than logic. The problem is your attitude is the norm with our current crop of politicians.

OK understood but if this empathy is suicidal then it would suggest that the countries which most display this empathy would be worse countries than those who don't — no?

If you look at the OECD Better Life Index, which measures countries based across the broad quality of life metrics (housing, income, jobs, community, education, environment, civic engagement, health, life satisfaction, safety and work-life balance) then in the upper tiers of those rankings you have multicultural countries like Australia, Canada, the US, Sweden etc. Other supposedly suicidal countries up there include the UK, France, Germany and the Boards-would-have-believe destroyed country of Ireland. Japan sits under all of them.

Now, that's not to suggest that immigration is behind those metric performances, but it certainly does seem to run at odds to the constant foretelling of doom and decline that people attribute to immigration — in your case the analogy of national suicide. The fact remains that all these apparently rapidly declining migration-ridden hellscapes seem to be pretty good places compared to much of the world.

You don't see truck loads of stowaway migrants at ports in Ireland . The scenario you posted that asylum seekers are poor and give all they have to come here is largely nonsense . A good NGO line to gain empathy is all it's worth .You need to show proof . I hope that is clear enough .