Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Legitimate criticism of israels actions is not vilification. The criticism of israel is not only related to its mass murder of civilians in Gaza but also it's continued illegal occupation. I don't believe that to be villification, but perhaps your friends in israel unfortunately do.

You're ignoring quite a big element that decides how prosperous the people of Gaza become.

It's obvious how intentional it is.

The pro-Palestine support on this forum is rather confusing. It’s starting to look like you guys are more interested in vilifying Israel than in pursuing a peaceful solution to the conflict. I, as someone who stands with Israel, am totally focused on the latter, and I view the protests we’re seeing in Gaza in a positive light. Meanwhile, you guys seem to be searching for every possible negative angle and outcome.

Nice way of you to assume moral high ground whilst ignoring the reality of the situation and then have the audacity to lecture others about negative outcomes.

Your points are in no way based in reality, it's just an exercise in self righteousness.

Palestine is the complete opposite of Israel, in the sense of, its not a united functioning democracy. 

And why is that? Since it's inception, Israel has ensured the Palestinian people could not become a strong independent functioning democracy.

Unless they can come to terms with themselves they will achieve nothing against Israel,

This sentence is meaningless.

If you think that sentence is meaningless, then so be it. But you're wrong. Palestinians have to unite and become as one, then with a united front face Israel. They're incapable of that now, because they're too factional.

Absolutely none of the above is in any way a logical response to what I posted. It's just a lot of words that illustrate very little, other than an attempt to place the blame fully on the victim whist letting the victimiser off the hook.

I’m not wrong; it was meaningless.
The whole “Palestinians need to get their act together” is a massively blinkered view with little basis in the reality of their situation.

I do, not because of anything other than I think of this whole thing as Israelis v Palestinians.

Palestine is the complete opposite of Israel, in the sense of, its not a united functioning democracy

Are you seriously suggesting Israel is a "united functioning democracy"?

I'm not aware of any other "united functioning democracy" on the planet where the Govt. is ignoring the will of the people, is headed up by an alleged War Criminal currently being prosecuted for corruption and whose previous minister for defence is also an alleged war criminal. Added to that, the State is currently subject to a case of Genocide before the ICJ.

"a united functioning democracy"?

I don't think so, by a long shot.

You should tell them to tell their Government then. Or rise up and throw out the corruption and War Criminals.

If the ICJ find that Israel committed Genocide, all Israelis will be tarred with that moniker because of what their Government did.

By your logic, Operation Overlord shouldn't have happened because it led to the bombing of Caen.

Another complete false equivalence. To equate what is happening today to Caen in 1944 requires total wilful ignorance of both situations.

When was there ever a state of Palestine?

That's not the point being made, and nowhere has anybody suggested such a thing either.

Your blaming Israel for stopping something that never was.

I suggest that you go back over what it was that I wrote because it's clear from that line that you didn't fully understand it the first time.

But if the Palestinians want it they need to unite politically is my point.

Israel won't let them. It's the very reason they bankrolled HAMAS in the first place. The Palestinian Authority were making too much headway in uniting the people of Palestine and pushing for statehood. Israel were dead set on doing everything the could to kill that.

palestine can't even agree with itself about its governance.

Palestine has been divided by Israeli interference for decades. You have a people that are split across an area and are completely controlled by an outside faction who are intent on keeping them under the boot. The Palestinians, as a people, are naturally discordant about who they are to look to for leadership and when you have an occupying power that further seeds that discordance because they don't want them to have any kind of unity, it's only inevitable that that unity becomes difficult to achieve.

None of that eliminates the fact that the absolute major player in keeping a Palestinian state from becoming a reality is Israel. Not the Palestinians.

As I stated - criminal cases are not based on precedent. What anybody did in the past is utterly irrelevant.

And you appear to have a complete misunderstanding of the definition of Genocide and War Crimes.

Do you think Israel being a democracy means they cannot commit war crimes or genocide? The ICC and ICJ would undoubtedly correct that mistaken assumption.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Israel was also warned about HAMAS 20 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

In an interview with Politico in 2023, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said that "In the last 15 years, Israel did everything to downgrade the Palestinian Authority and to boost Hamas." He continued saying "Gaza was on the brink of collapse because they had no resources, they had no money, and the PA refused to give Hamas any money. Bibi saved them. Bibi made a deal with Qatar and they started to move millions and millions of dollars to Gaza." At a Likud party conference in 2019, Benyamin Netanyahu said:

"Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas ... This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."

Prime Minister Netanyahu responded to the accusations of funding and strengthening Hamas by calling them "ridiculous".

Gershon Hacohen, former commander of the 7th Armored Brigade and an associate of Benjamin Netanyahu, said in 2019 in an interview:

“Netanyahu’s strategy is to prevent the option of two states, so he is turning Hamas into his closest partner. Openly Hamas is an enemy. Covertly, it’s an ally.”

Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right lawmaker and finance minister under Netanyahu Government, called the Palestinian Authority a "burden" and Hamas an "asset".

I'd go further and have posted frequently on all these - Israel fully deserves critisism from all sides - its treatment of Palestinians, of the Lebanese, of UN peacekeepers, including the Irish. They deserve critisism for the murder of journalists, medics and humanitarian aid workers.

They also deserve criticism for their treatment of the hostages and their families - abandoned since day one plus the treatment of all Israelis who abhor what their government is doing.

It's just convenient to be accused of "vilifying" Israel - just like it was convenient to call those criticising Israel as either "antsemitic" or "Hamas supporters".

Convenient in as much as there is absolutely no other argument that justifies what Israel is doing. None. Just name calling.