Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

1309310312314315324

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,857 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    @Leroy42 as VinLieger pointed out, this is the nonsense:

    Also the likes of AAI were spouting in support of MUP that Ireland was awash with cheap alcohol while we were already one of the most expensive countries in Europe and that our drinking problem was getting worse while our consumption figures had been on a steady measured decline for a decade at the time. They quite simply lied to push their what ultimately amounts to a prohibitionist agenda and quite simply prohibition doesn't work, we saw that in the US in the 1920s and we see it everyday on our streets and around the world with the so called "war on drugs".

    Lying to the politicians and the public who fund them, in order to get their agenda legislated for.

    What do you reckon AAI's ultimate goal is?

    Why should they be funded with taxpayers' money to lobby for laws that taxpayers don't want?

    Why wouldn't they support it? It greatly boosts their profits. They know their competitors (whether other supermarkets, or independent offies) can't undercut them - so in effect there is no competition at all

    If one of the multiples was doing cheap slab offers at Christmas then they all felt obliged to join in. But if no-one can, then happy days for the all of the supermarkets as they won't lose market share by selling at a much higher price. Their so-called "competitors" are all forced to sell at that price too.

    Businesses never pass up the opportunity to form a cartel when the chance arises. MUP is nothing other than a state-enforced cartel.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,332 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Ahh yes the thing Roisin shorthall had never once mentioned prior to being appointed MOS for Health of a government which had promised to reduce below cost selling to get people into pubs… yeah they must have nothing to do with each other whatsoever…..

    If they arent the instigators of it then who is? Id be very curious as this is the first hint of MUP as any kind of political initiative that I am aware of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,036 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    "Businesses never pass up the opportunity to form a cartel".
    "If one of the multiples was doing cheap slab offers at Christmas then they all felt obliged to join in."

    Your quotes seem contradictory. Happy to form a cartel which is something they could have done anyway without MUP, yet clearly eager to break it as someone always sold cheap slabs meaning they all did.

    I still think the claim that 'supermarkets supported MUP' doesn't have any evidence to back it up. Personally I suspect, though also without evidence, that they'd have been neutral about it or moderately against. Yes, it clearly gives them increased profits per unit sold, but presumably has also hit overall sales as price differential re independent offies/spars etc is now negligible. And has denied them the easy advertising angle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,248 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    it would have been practically impossible for them to form any sort of a cartel without MUP. There are too many supermarkets , suppliers and online retailers involved. MUP has forced a price on them, which they are happy to profit from. As for the idea that it has hit their sales, MUP won't deter a person if they want to buy drink, it just means they have less money for other things. Unelected AAI should be told to piss off, and concentrate on their own miserable lives



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,036 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    By 'hit their sales' I meant that the incentive to go Dunnes/Tesco etc for beer is reduced, not that overall consumption is down. My local off-license has a variety of beers at bang-on MUP, and Spars/Centras are usually just a few per-cent over.

    I couldn't recall the last time I specifically went to a big supermarket for beer, when my local offy has 5% bottles at €2 (exact MUP, I'm not saying it's cheap or anything, it pains me to pay it).



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,438 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    With wine though it favoured Dunnes and Supervalu over Tesco, LIDL, ALDI. I can't recall many if any wines in Dunnes or Supervalu that were regularly below MUP.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Lidl and aldi wines were never sold below cost. They were selling cheaper wines but they were always selling at a profit. It just so happens they were buying in bulk from cheaper producers and were able to sell them cheaper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,487 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Utter baloney, these horrible things happen with and without alcohol, the weakness is in the person, stop looking for excuses.

    Untitled Image

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,438 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    We were talking about below MUP. I wouldn't be 100% sure about whether below cost or not.

    MUP has reduced competition for 'plonk' as previously LIDL, ALDI, Tesco were selling wines for e.g. €5-€7 that are now jumped up in price or just gone.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    MUP was brought in to tackle below cost selling. My point was Aldi or Lidl were never selling below cost, they were just selling cheaper wines.

    And because Ireland was already one of the most expensive places in Europe to buy wine, what they were selling was labeled, figuratively speaking as "cheap plonk", when in reality, they were selling perfectly acceptable decent wine.

    I remember seeing the same bottle of wine that I had paid about 6 euros for in the Lidl in Rathmines, in a Lidl in Poland for about 1.70.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,857 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    A cartel is a conspiracy to sell goods at an inflated price, not a reduced or even below cost one

    Why would it hit sales (outside of the loss-leader period, which they weren't making money on)? You can get your beer for the week same time as doing the grocery shopping, same price as anywhere else, no need to go off to the off-licence unless they have a better selection - many of them don't. Remember the cheap offers were only for a few weeks, for the rest of the year there was the ability to compete on price while still making a profit. Now they're forced to sell at a price level which is higher again. €€€€

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 247 ✭✭redshift-rider


    Very little was below cost prior to MUP. That was another lie.

    Below cost selling was allowed, as it should be in a free market. Sometimes you'd see shorted-dated beer discounted below cost. As it should be. What can they do now? My local off-license was selling short-dated craft cans for €2.50+ recently. They couldn't discount them lower. They sat on the shelf unsold because only an idiot would spend that much money on an IPA that's 9+ months old. I assume they eventually went down the drain. Waste.

    If they were discounted to €1.00 i'd have bought them and drank them at the end of a session when my taste buds were less discerning. Nope, we can't be doing that, think of the children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,857 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    MUP was brought in to tackle below cost selling.

    Don't recall ever hearing that officially mentioned as a justification.

    Below cost selling was once banned without MUP, and could be again if MUP was removed.

    But apart from (probably) the big reductions on Xmas slabs, it's likely that very little was below cost.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,325 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    The waste is one aspect of the shop not being allowed to discount stock.

    Another is the effect it will have on choice of beers.

    If the shopkeeper has to dump or give away slow selling lines they most likely won't bother stocking them in future



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    When AAI are on their soap box there is never anyone from the opposition to tackle them. Until AAI start to target publicans there will be very little arguing against MUP in the media. 6.80 for a pint of heineken in my local. They can keep it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,150 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    That wagon Frances Black seems to be sniffing around the presidency, just a reminder she is one of the instigators of this ridiculous minimum pricing thing



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    She's a great supporter of the Palestinians too, so those of you who hate MUP but support that the Palestinians, please thread carefully.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,147 ✭✭✭✭thesandeman


    I was thinking about that conundrum last night. I've the same confusion with Linda Martin due to her love of animals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,857 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The president can do the square root of fúck all for the Palestinians or animals 🙄

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,325 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Nor MUP either despite living in a mansion with as well stocked wine cellar while the rest of us are paying through the nose for plonk.

    And furthermore our parliament has two bars where the members don't even have to pay upfront for booze but can stick it on the tab while we can't even get Clubcard points.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,325 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    There is no political opposition to MUP.

    Just think about that for a minute.

    In a parliament where everything is argued over time and again the one thing they all agreed on was more expensive drink.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,857 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    IIRC sticking booze "on the slate" is illegal in every other bar in the country.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Does as i say not as I do. The Dails unofficial motto going back decades.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,453 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Removed from legislation in 2000, when card payments started being taken but it wasn't normal to pay with card every round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    George orwell's animal farm is the conclusion that has always fascinated me from a young age



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,325 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Maybe one day the history of this period of neo prohibitionism will be written.

    MUP could make an interesting chapter.

    It wouldn't sell as well as Orwell's works but it might answer some questions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,858 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    We have a right wing but they're too concerned with immigration to worry about MUP. Always would have thought that MUP was a right wing idea because it allows businesses to profit more.

    Left wing politics to me was always about having researched ways of looking after the less well off in society. MUP increases the price of a social outlet so very much flies in the face of that. Clearly the left are behind it in this country so here we are



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,485 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I agree because we have drinking problems in Ireland.

    "usual lefty health ministers" like Donnelly (McKinsey consulant, didn't last a wet week in the SocDems), Harris, Vradakar, Reilly, all FG blue blood.

    Do you want to define lefty?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,138 ✭✭✭silliussoddius




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,681 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Forget about Animal Farm. MUP is a conspiracy between RTE, North Korea and Hitler. See post #1.



Advertisement