Come back Garron Noone! **Mod Warning in Post #654**

Hold on you're saying black people commit crimes in Ireland at a much higher rate then Irish?bi find that hard to believe after we generously welcomed them here. Are those stats verified?

Sure. What's your point? The numbers are just above - I used them in the calculation: 1.5% of the general population, vs 3.4% imprisoned for a crime. That's a pretty massive overrepresentation in prison.

If anything it's almost certainly higher again: because of the 1.5% of the population who are black, a number will have Irish nationality, and some will be of American or West Indian origin, whereas the prison stats are not about identification but about nationality: black people of Irish nationality and black people of non African nationalities will not be included in that 3.4%.

Nonsense. I don't have to back up my prejudice views of foreigners, you do.

Hold on a second. Are you saying black people are over represented in our prison population. Nothing to do with their nationality, just that people with black skin are over represented? Is that what you're saying?

Assuming you're being serious (I didn't think you could be but I see Emmet Spiceland has "liked " your post so he thinks you are) there may well be some degree of "institutional racism", I wouldn't know - but to think that so many Irish people are getting away with serious crimes that black Africans are being arrested, tried, found guilty and imprisoned for, that it could swing the statistics to that degree would require massive, organised racism within the guards.

Not only do I find that unlikely (but I'm not from a garda family - maybe they're all members of the KKK for all I know - but then so also must be the judges etc) but most of all, I'm surprised that it's apparently acceptable to dismiss actual statistics with a conspiracy theory about AGS.

If you're entitled to dismiss facts based on your own prejudices, presumably so are the racists.

Eh you have that backwards.

If Irish nationals are 76.6% of the country's population, but 79.3% of the prison population, then Irish nationals are overrepresented in prison, not under. Therefore, foreign nationals are underrepresented in prison, rather than being there 'in excess'.

Not necessarily: they counted Irish travellers, who are clearly Irish, separately, and also included only white Irish. As I pointed out, there are Irish people of Chinese, Indian, and other non African ethnicities.

But I'm not saying that the calculation above is anything other than a back-of-an-envelope very rough estimate. Someone provided those figures for prison, but they're utterly meaningless without a comparison with the general population. So that's what I looked for, and took the first link that seemed at all comparable.

If someone can find better data, I'm very happy for those to be used instead.

I'm very serious. Systemic racism is very real. I don't think you know what that is, and I'll be honest, it's late, I'm not going to try to educate you, but there is a reason why there is also a much higher percentage of black men in prison in the USA than the population percentage.

I'll give you one clue: Race doesn't actually determine if you're more likely to commit a crime, unbelievable as it may seem to you.

And are these diffeent classes evenly distributed by nationality or ethinicity?

Have you accounted for the age breakdowns of these groups?

Did you think about that?

You have already been caught out by multiple posters misrepresenting the limited stats you have cited.

Your claims have no credibility and are just unthiking racism dressed up as just asking questions. They are not based on truth but prejudice.

Garron Noone's comments fall into the same trap.

If anything it's almost certainly higher again: because of the 1.5% of the population who are black, a number will have Irish nationality, and some will be of American or West Indian origin, whereas the prison stats are not about identification but about nationality: black people of Irish nationality and black people of non African nationalities will not be included in that 3.4%.

Just so we are all clear here, you are claiming that people with black skin are over represented in Irish prisons, because some Irish nationals also have black skin?

What is it exactly that you are trying to prove here?

Sure, lets look at some data. Based on the data posted earlier, would you agree that

If Irish nationals are 76.6% of the country's population, but 79.3% of the prison population, then Irish nationals are overrepresented in prison, not under. Therefore, foreign nationals are underrepresented in prison, rather than being there 'in excess'.

Ah yes, Ireland, famous for it's welcoming open arms to all…

We are incredibly prejudicial in this country. You only have to look at what happens to local pubs when travellers come through.

Irish travellers need to be added on to that lower number, as well as non white people of Irish nationality.

What makes you think Irish travellers are not included in the nationality of prisoners? And why do you insist on treating black Irish nationals differently to white Irish nationals?

Irish travellers need to be added on to that lower number, 

I mean - because it says so??

As for non whites that's because - as I've now pointed out several times, the two sets of data don't compare exactly the same thing, so I'm pointing out how they can be made at least a bit more directly comparable.

But I'm not talking about colour or ethnicity, just looking at Irish nationals in comparison to non-Irish nationals.

If it is the case that Irish nationals (whatever their colour or ethnicity) comprise 76.6% of the country's population, but 79.3% of the prison population, therefore they are overrepresented in prison, and consequently, non Irish nationals (whatever their colour or ethnicity) are underrepresented.

I'm baffled as to how you can interpret that data to mean that there is 'an excess of non Irish nationals' in Irish prisons. Literally, the opposite is the case.

But in reality, every person in this thread knows you got it wrong, and you know they know, but instead of holding your hands up and saying 'OK I got that wrong', you double down on with a silly attempt to muddy the waters through some fabricated tangent about ethnicity and the Chinese Irish and the likes.

But even as you do so, you know how very foolish it all makes you look.