Come back Garron Noone! **Mod Warning in Post #654**

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295375#Comment_123295375

I see he posted a clarification. Was a poorly worded original point and I think the clarification cleared it up significantly.

The point was some people perceive the streets to be more dangerous and perceive a more serious drug problem in their areas. When we dont address these concerns it allows dog whistlers to associate the problems with immigration. When the only people people see talking about problems they have are the hard right they get taken in by the arguments. Many of us chose to check information we see online, but the reality is, most people dont unfortunately and when the only people they see talking about their worries are also those peddling far right lies some fall into the trap they have set for them.

This is a pernicious trap and the tactic is to take something with a grain of truth - eg. there is a shortage of affordable accommodation, but to add lies and misinformation to the divert the conversation. The trap we fall into sometimes is only addressing the lies but not the hook. The when the likes of Micheal Martin makes statements like to address shortage of rental accommodation we need to make it more lucrative for investor it feeds the narrative in the absence of addressing the issue.

MrStuffins

I mean, saying he was misunderstood but then standing by the assertion that towns in Ireland are less safe now because "immigrants" is still pretty bad. It's the classic righty grift and he's going to get righty grifters backing him up and those who use facts and logic disagreeing with him.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295615#Comment_123295615

There's an interesting subtext in your post.

Essentially anyone who isn't left wing (or at least not opposed to left wing ideals) is excluded from facts and logic.

The only possible explanations for someone disagreeing with you are either their incredibly imoral beliefs or their unbelievable stupidity.

It's quite a grift for a group of people to present themselves as not only morally superior but also intellectually superior to those they disagree with.

con___manx1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123291610#Comment_123291610

I agree but I dont think immigration was high enough on some voters minds. Its mostly the older generation that voted in that government.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295661#Comment_123295661

Immigration wasn't a major issue for any age demographic in the exit polls conducted after the last general election.

The major issue was housing\homelessness and this was across all age groups.

with the housing issue being even more significant across younger voting age groups.

https://www.rte.ie/news/election-24/2024/1130/1483888-election-age-gender/

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295435#Comment_123295435

Indeed,

Even serious crime is down in general:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/945262/homicides-in-ireland/

And to back up your figures:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/945336/overall-crime-offences-in-ireland/

The covid years are difficult to attach too much too (2020 and 2021)

All of these figures in a context of a growing population:

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/IRL/ireland/population

There are a lot of people "feeling" that crime is increasing and that places are "less safe" than they were but the facts don't back this up.

The bigger things that are happening in rural areas with respoect to crime is drug use and abuse which is increasing at a massive rate - I am not sure who/what you can put this down to but it's a signifant issue.

There is no doubt that immigration has brough significant challenges that the country hasn't dealt very well with and this should be discussed in the open without fear.

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295435#Comment_123295435

Far far safer with a much bigger population

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295615#Comment_123295615

The original post was very poorly worded but the follow up clarified I think. More like peoples perception that there is an increase in violence, whatever the cause, allows the space to be filled by the likes of McGregor when it is not acknowledged.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295786#Comment_123295786

People's perceptions aren't real though, when they are not backed up by facts. Just because someone thinks something doesn't mean it is so, or that they are correct

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295786#Comment_123295786

The cause is wilful ignorance.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295657#Comment_123295657

You are completely misrepresenting the post in question

Saying "Thing Bad - Blame Immigrits" is a classic right wing grift. It appeals to the basest motives and fears, regardless of actual facts.

Not all who are right of centre would stoop to this level. Oh and not everyone who isn't right of centre is left wing, either.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295965#Comment_123295965

I disagree.

Unless the person who posted it can clarify you're just offering commentary.

When you write something like that it can be interpreted in more than one way, you've taken a different angle to me but it's down to the OP to clarify.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295922#Comment_123295922

The truth is that not everyone is going to go out of their way to inform themselves. It would be different if they did, but they dont. And there are problems, just not the problems amplified by the far right. There is an increase in harder drugs in small towns. This is driving fear. When someone gives a false but easy answer some will gravitate towards it. And then they see each and every small incident amplified when they get dragged in.

They also see the housing shortage - this is caused by woeful spatial planning and no desire to go after vested interests. But when no one is doing anything about in and someone gives them an easy, but false explanation some also gravitate towards it.

Thats why tackling this takes a dual approach - inform people of the facts and acknowledge where the real problems are and set out a plan to deal.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123296044#Comment_123296044

And in fairness to Garron Noone - he made that exact point in the video that seems to have caused all the controversy stating that some of these issues required a much longer piece of vodeo to get into the background etc etc and that short from video wasn't really the place to "discuss" these issues, yet went on to discuss them.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123296108#Comment_123296108

In the first video he didn't make the distinction between peoples perception and the reality and left it open to take the message that "crime is caused by immigration"

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123296125#Comment_123296125

He made many mistakes in the video but he did say at the very start - I cannot find the video now - that short form videos were not the place to learn about various topics - as "

The truth is that not everyone is going to go out of their way to inform themselves. "

The reason they don't go out of their way to inform themselves is it takes time and a level of knowledge to do it.

It's much more entertaining watching lots of short form videos that are snappy etc - but don't give any real context.

erlichbachman

There’s a real problem with the comeback speech, it went too heavy on the “sorry I really should have made myself clearer” and not enough of the “how ta fcuk do you come to that conclusion from such a tame and balanced opinion”.

The problem is one of interpretation and not one of clarity, society has a serious comprehension issue.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123296044#Comment_123296044

The truth is that not everyone is going to go out of their way to inform themselves.

Yes, it's called wilful ignorance. Like I said.

It has never been easier to spread lies, but it has never been easier in the history of the planet to fact check them either.

If people chose to live in disinformation culture, not much we can do about because in the main they do it because it suits their bigotry.

Instead of pandering to the minority they should just be called out for what they are, hateful cranks.

Light is the best disinfectant.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295375#Comment_123295375

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295375#Comment_123295375

Yeah, I agree.

There is a lot of that kind if racist thinking in Ireland to be honest.

The amount of times I hear older Irish women talk about the time they got a taxi and the driver was black, like they were lucky to survive the trip because the driver was black.

And the way a lot of people react to male refugees being housed beside them is unreal, you would think they were all just after getting out of prison for murder.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123296484#Comment_123296484

Most of his original video was absolutely fine ('we need to have a discussion about immigration' etc). It was that one sentence where he claimed Ireland's cities and towns were much less safe because of immigration that landed him in hot water.

MrStuffins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295657#Comment_123295657

Nope. I didn't say that, but I respect your right to pick it up the wrong way and to be triggered by what I said.

MrStuffins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123296010#Comment_123296010

Pretty easy to clarify. I only mentioned two groups of people.

If I said that Real Madrid supporters thinking that Trent Alexander Arnold going to Madrid is a good move and Liverpool supporters think it was a bad move, would you pick this up to assume that EVERYBODY who thinks it's a good move is a Madrid supporter? And that EVERYBODY who thought it was a bad move was a Liverpool supporter?

Of course not, unless you had a chip on your shoulder about these things of course.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123296677#Comment_123296677

It is undeniable that people have been pushed towards extreme opinions by a combination of ignorance and marginalisation. This has been preyed on by those who peddle hate and division. You cannot just say "if they dont chose to educate themselves leave them in their bigotry". Education and understanding not further division and marginalisation are what is required

Its the equivalent of pulling the goalkeeper because your centre back is poor positionally. Rather than leaving your goalie and coaching your centre back

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123297001#Comment_123297001

Education and understanding not further division and marginalisation are what is required

They have no interest in education, they liberally lather themselves in alternative facts.

I have no idea what you are proposing or how you would implement this education?

Listen, this absolute nonsense of bringing them in from the fringe and making them part of the discussion is just pony. They have no interest.

They existed pre widespread internet down the pub, absolute wing nut with the daily mail in the arsé pocket ranting and raving about how there won't be a swan left in the country as the Polish will have eaten them all.

The method to deal with them hasn't changed, either ignore or tell them STFU.

limnam

C list Celebrity returns to tik tok.

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More news at 11.

DebDynamite

Am I missing something here? Garron himself said he took himself off for a few days because of the abuse he received from, presumably left leaning people, who clearly misinterpreted what he said, where he clearly said crime rates were not just down to immigration.

Apart from anti-social behavior from own homegrown scrotes which appears to be worse than ever, anecdotally, there does appear to be higher proportion of foreign nationals from certain countries at least commiting sex or violent crimes. One only has to read the news regularly. Unfortunately it appears the government are not collecting that kind of data, or certainly not publishing it anyway, so it's hard to know what the facts are.

To get an idea, we could probably look at the UK, where only a couple of weeks ago their government published data that 1 in 4 sexual offences were caused by foreign nationals. This is despite census data showing foreign nationals make up just 9.3 per cent of the population at that time. 

MrStuffins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123297454#Comment_123297454

"One only has to read the news regularly"

Depends where you get your news, dunnit?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123297454#Comment_123297454

there does appear to be higher proportion of foreign nationals from certain countries at least commiting sex or violent crimes

You can I am sure back this up with actual facts, and not some nonsense like anecdotally or plucked from my imagination.

Garron also said that having ight wingers latch onto him was the last thing he wanted.

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123297562#Comment_123297562

Unfortunately no one can, as we don’t record that kind of info. It really would help if we did.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123297593#Comment_123297593

So, you admit to making it up, just to make immigrants look like criminals.

Oh and we do keep those type of records actually.