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Your New WHS Index

19394969899

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭bakerbhoy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭bobster453




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 884 ✭✭✭thewobbler



    I don’t have any data, but my gut instinct / understanding of how numbers work, is that when we have already removed the outliers (so it’s only best 8 from last 20), then for the vast majority of golfers, the difference between mean and median would be less than a stroke.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭bakerbhoy


    Even with 8.. Average can still be unduly squeeze by outliers in the 8..

    Just checked mine

    6.1......15.2



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭blue note


    How much would your handicap change by if you used median instead of average? My handicap is 12.2 and would increase to 12.7 if calculated using median instead.



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  • Administrators Posts: 55,100 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Staying with best 8 and switching to median I would gain .5 of a shot.

    Switching to best 5 and switching to median I would lose 1 shot.

    Switching to best 5 and staying with average I would lose 1.4 shots.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,464 ✭✭✭big_drive


    My index is currently 5.7 , if median was used it would drop to 5.5



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭bakerbhoy


    My middle 4 are 11.2 11.2 11.4 11.4

    My index is 11.2



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭billy3sheets


    I looked at this 2 years ago in my club and found that the winners were distributed more or less according to the distribution of handicaps. I did a quick scan back over the 18 hole competitions on Monday and Wednesday this winter and found a reasonable distribution of winners too. Yes, there were a few mid 20s but also low teens and single figures.

    What do you consider higher handicap players?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭blue note


    So your median would be 11.3? .1 different to your actual?

    I'd be surprised if changing to median would make a much of a consistent difference. Instinctively, since you're taking the 12 biggest numbers out of a set of 20 I'd guess it would increase the handicaps a little, but I don't know.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭blue note


    I looked at almost a years worth of corballis Sunday singles scores in 2023 (up to the middle of November or so). If I remember correctly, the average winning score was about 39 points. And the repeat winners were the single digit lads. One lad who started and finished the year on 4 won 18 prizes between top 3 overall, cat 1 and gross. That's crazy to me. But in corballis category 1 is single digits, so some weeks probably didn't have many in it at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭bakerbhoy


    Consistant scoring is what it is. This leads to a index that stunts the scoring long term..

    Highly fluctuating scoring leads to an indice that allows the unexpected 47pts ..where did that come from score..

    The median would be best suited to a larger array 20 40 50 expanding as a file fills to a max…

    The median in most cases will drift by age , improving/declining ability and scores deviating in a gross manner from the median should warrant closer review.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭Golfgraffix


    I don’t understand clubs that don’t use auto balancing for comp categories. If there are 120 playing, there should be 40 in each category. Let the comp software work out the handicap range for each.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭blue note


    I understand it, but I don't agree with it. They split the matchplay into single figures and the rest too. I think it was 26 in single figures and 52 in the other. Imagine winning a club matchplay by only winning 4 matches.... that's not winning it at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭coillcam


    I was just going to ask how many entries were in cat 1 because that's a phenomenal level of consistency. Would be interesting to see the bad scores and general play cards over the year also.



  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭septicsac


    Quick question for the brains trust in here.

    Friend played in club stableford at the weekend. Frost delay and club decided to start the day on the tenth and play back nine first, then the front nine. Long story short my mate tied for 1st in his category and had one point more than other guy on the last nine holes, which on the day was the front nine. Club placed him second saying he was beaten on the back nine, despite that fact it was the first nine on the day.

    Has anyone come across anything like this before, all gui documentation speaks of the last nine being used to decide ties and not the "back nine"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭bobster453


    Interesting conundrum.

    Cant really see how the club could do anything else really as the system only works that way unless somebody was physically going to check the card for each member.

    Tough on your mate but thems the breaks I guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 884 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    the bit you haven’t clarified here is whether you mate clarified the ruling.

    this sounds like an honest mistake from a competition committee who just pressed the result button on their BRS and took it as read.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,464 ✭✭✭big_drive


    Sounds correct, like in pro tournaments they often have two tee starts. Or a shotgun start in something like LIV. But I think the back 9 still remains as such regardless of what order the course was played.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭blue note


    I assume in a shotgun start it would be the back 9, but this is different because everyone started on the back 9. My gut said that it would be the back 9, but the last 9 makes sense. So I don't know. I hope that helps.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭paulos53


    My understanding is that there are no set rules for countbacks and the competition committee have a lot of leeway in setting them. There are recommendations in the appendix of the rules book which most clubs follow.

    The answer to this would be found in your club's Terms of Competition. The wording would be important. "Final 9 holes" vs "Back 9" or "Holes 10-18" could produce a different result when everybody tees off from the 10th.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭finglashoop


    Id have assumed the final 9 applies to hole 1 to 9 if everyone tees off on 10 to start, making this hole 1.



  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭septicsac


    Just to add, on the clubs comp hub it refers to count backs as "last nine", "last 6" etc, only discovered this after original post on their desktop site.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,464 ✭✭✭big_drive


    On another query does anyone know if a 12 hole competition can count towards handicap under the following rules- placing on fairway, play as it lies in rough?

    I know people can submit 9 holes under WHS but is the same applied to 12 holes, does computer use some formula, etc



  • Administrators Posts: 55,100 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    It can if the course has an actual 12 hole scorecard that is rated I think.

    You can't just use the 18 hole card and not play 6 holes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,946 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    I thought that one of the new changes this year allow clubs the option to have anything over a 9-hole round as a counting round?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,464 ✭✭✭big_drive


    Pretty sure they don't have a 12 hole card.

    I thought alright there was something but can't remember properly



  • Administrators Posts: 55,100 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I just looked it up, @spacecoyote is correct.

    You can indeed just use the 18 hole card and mark the other 6 holes as not played.

    It'll use the expected score differential of someone of your handicap level on the 6 holes you don't play to create an 18 hole differential which can be used for handicap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭billy3sheets




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  • Administrators Posts: 55,100 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    We’ve done a considerable amount of work in sifting through the data, both in terms of club competitions but also in our own competitions, where we have acknowledged that a substantial number of rounds are played in non-counting formats and may therefore be contributing to concerns that some might raise about the fairness of handicapping in our inter-club competitions.

    I don't really understand this bit.

    Is this to do with so many competitions being foursomes which are non-counting?



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