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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭ShineyShiney


    My ratings across the tournament for the Irish players.

    Porter 6.5 solid and consistent at set piece but no longer a difference maker in the loose.

    Healy 8 completed his limited role with customary consistency. A legend.

    Kelliher 7 a nuts and bolts hooker always decent. We missed him when he got injured.

    Sheehan 7.5 delivered on the final day after a sub par ( for him) outing against france.

    McCarty 6.5 contributed well when called on, looks to have a lot of composure and professionalism, some bulking to be done.

    Bealham 8 couldn't have contributed more, a player most observers would have had in the only in an emergency category has stepped into the shoes of one of our best and never took a backwards step. Lions reward ?

    Clarkson 7 baby steps in this most challenging of positions, showing good promise.

    Furlong 10 how good was it to see this legend back in the front row yesterday. There's life in the old dog yet. Needs a run now for Leinster to remind everyone of the quality.

    Ryan 6 Never lacks for effort but needs to find a way to impact the big moments. A player of rare physical quality in Ireland but needs to go to AWJ school to learn to dominate.

    Beirne 7 always a threat when Beirne shines Ireland shine. A little of the glitter missing this time around.

    McCarty 6 Has the raw talent and bulk, a player for the future for sure but he is needed now. Seems to be playing the carrier role may be more suited to the enforcer.

    Pom 6 screaming at the dying of the light. Go well and thanks who now will get upset at the least of outrages.

    Jdvf 7 peerless in terms of effort, is the impact diminishing? We certainly hope not. Perhaps a Lions swansong?

    Doris 8 has the tools to be the Alpha needs more from those around him to allow him to swagger. Stands out nearly every game as a difference maker.

    Conan 8 seems to be benefiting from the break last season. Brings power and smarts and a very important player for us in the absence of pom going forward.

    Baird 6.5 Didn't shine in his 1 start but added plenty from the bench when given the call. There looks like there's more but let's see it.

    Jgp 7 quality with a few glimpses of dodgy decision making, not getting the armchair rise of the past from his pack. Less influential than last year.

    Murray 7 solid and reliable. No sentiment in his selections. Best of luck

    Prendergast 6 flashes of brilliance show a huge potential but basics win games. Needs to win the games not every moment, get the basics right and add the flash after. Looks diminished by the poor selection policies and the media coverage.

    Crowley 6 A partner to SP in the master class of how to mess up two good players with bad selection policies Solid if unspectacular nuts and bolts 10. Far more valuable than filling a utility role.

    Bundi 8 There's a bundi shaped hole coming at 12 and our centres don't look the same without his hard carrying and attitude. Lions trip.

    Henshaw 6.5 better outside bundi than inside Ringrose but a better 12 than 13. Figure that one out.

    Ringrose 6 Ireland's shooter but has he taken one shot too many. Struggling to put his stamp on things this year.

    Lowe 9 Makes something from nothing which has been very necessary in this Irish attack. Boot, power, attitude and skill. Badly missed when out.

    Mack 7.5 Plays so much rugby in every game. Prone to the odd error and lacks a little power but has the smarts to keep defenses in trouble. Chase and high ball work very important to Ireland.

    Nash 6.5 Good straightline winger unlikely to get many chances to shine and needs a few moments to happen for him. Will lose out to inferior players who have a point of difference if he doesn't.

    Keenan 8 Never a bad game, less influential in this edition of Ireland's attack but consistent and unchallenged.

    Osbourne 7.5 12, 15, 14 Has it all but where and instead of whom. My monies on 12 this summer. Perhaps a 12/13 combination with Henshaw.

    Coaching 4.5 Can't help feeling that the 10 situation has been exceptionally badly managed and rubbed off in the team. Prendergast with Crowley off the bench was the smart call with. Blunt attack, misfiring power plays, lowered skill level. Changes may be required in playing strategy and coaching personnel.

    Time to widen the pool and begin a serious rebuild.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,866 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Have we had calls for Mack Hansen to be dropped after a defensive disasterclass yesterday?

    Or does that nonsense only apply to Prendergast?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    It will because there’s a decent chance quite a few of these players are still playing good rugby at 35…as we saw with NZL & SA in the WC final in 2023. The player already over the hill or are on the way to doing so are the main focus right now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭typhoony


    I thought he did reasonably well, his weaknesses don't seem to be as glaringly obvious as prendergasts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭50HX


    Really disappointed that Baird hadn't stepped into the gap that's going to be left post POM.

    He has the physical size & I'd hoped he'd become the backrow lineout specialist...showed glimpses of it for club on his return but never grabbed it by the balls for Ireland



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭Rugbyf565


    Starting to believe that Prendergast-haters/Crowley-defenders are like Trump supporters; their own delusions become their reality.

    IMG_5806.jpeg IMG_5807.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,541 ✭✭✭✭phog


    If you search the internet looking to be outraged you'll certainly find it.

    I wonder do the mods really want the rest of us to follow your lead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    I'd argue a 25% kicking success rate is a glaringly obvious weakness.

    There were plenty of claims that Crowley would be the easy solution to the ailing Irish attack but playing against an Italy side that conceded a combined 120 points their prior two matches and he didn't seem to be able to add much despite Italy being down to 14 for ~25 minutes of the time he was on the pitch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Did SP get the 6 Nations missed tackles record in the end? 😅 You're in for some shock when you look at Ringrose's stats too. 5 made, 5 missed.

    Hansen and Lowe have been poor the whole tournament defensively. At least they upped the ante after half time in attack a bit



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,866 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Doesn't matter how they played in attack, or at least it didn't matter how Prendergast played in attack.

    You getting my point yet?

    At least show some consistency when you look for weaknesses.

    And I've pointed out how shite the centres have been, but yet none of the lads have called for them to be dropped. It only applies to Prendergast because they want their team's player to play.

    If their team actually produced an international standard centre in the last 2 decades they might actually start to give a shite about the Ireland team, and not what their own players are or arent doing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    It wasn't even a week ago when you were similarly 'outraged' about comments you'd found on the internet about Crowley post the NZ game



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Other than his goal kicking I think he was as fine, obviously didn’t have his best game but idk how much of that was down to him or down to the rest of the side being so static…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 372 ✭✭VayNiice


    The side being static often has something to do with the 10 as they should be controlling the backline.

    Its mad the bollocking Prendergast has been getting, even when he plays well but Crowley gets a free pass after Ireland's worst performance in years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,292 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    please don't quote him.

    biggest problem this 6 nations, in my opinion, was the coaching.

    selection and attack. total jokeshop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,622 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Thought he had one of his best games for Ireland against Scotland. Was very busy in defense and on the deck. I think it's a massive failing that POM got so many minutes this tournament. Izuchukwu and Prendergast got zero, that's absolutely ridiculous. Whatever one's personal opinion on POM, for him to be retiring yet monopolize the playing time at 6 is a waste of opportunity. None of the alternatives would materially weaken the team.

    Farrell's refusal to cut sling with lads post WC is a mistake, where his normally positive and admirable attitude towards lads has turned into a negative. Irish coaches are always a season too slow to move on from players. We fret about depth, yet continue to pick guys in the twilight of their career over younger lads in comparable form.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Except I haven’t been giving Prendergast a bollocking, infact id say the same things about him that I said about Crowley yesterday during this 6N for the most part.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭vetinari


    People seem to be forgetting that Prendergast was on the field yesterday as well!

    He came on for what 20 minutes and clearly looked a step down from Crowley in terms of open play.

    For all the talk about elite game management and passing from Prendergast, it's only really led to points in the England and Scotland games. You can at least see the attacking threat when Crowley is playing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 314 ✭✭HiJacques


    Crowley didn't live up to the hype. What's Joey Carberry doing these days?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,622 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I don't think Crowley showed much of anything in open play worth talking about. He made one good break down the left wing. Outside of that, I can't think of anything notable he did from open play.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,652 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Well he played a beautiful blind pass for Keenan's try, not sure if you're counting that as open play since it was a set piece move.

    It's nip and tuck between the two, if SP improves his physicality ( as he should) he probably has the edge.

    Close though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,622 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I wasn't considering that as open play, no. He's made a few of those passes in the tournament, credit to him there. There's nothing particularly exceptional to them tho, I'd hope any back, and most forwards, to be capable of it.

    Crowley's biggest strength, according to his champions, is his running threat. Yet we didn't see much change from that on Sat, and ironically, it would be more of a weapon if he played the way Prendergast does. A run first OH is more easily marshalled than one who can distribute the way Prendergast does, but his weakness comes from not being enough of a running threat to worry the defense enough to fix them.

    The two of them are currently half of what Sexton was, with Prendergast getting the more useful share of the skills imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,724 ✭✭✭ersatz


    For fans and opinionators like us I don’t think Crowley’s performance clarifies that he’s better at anything than SP. He had a big chance, it was Italy and they copped 2 cards, you really couldn’t ask for more yet he was no more than adequate and wouldn’t really be the focus of any positive match review. Goes down as a missed opportunity for him. Maybe the selectors know what they’re doing even if there are legitimate questions about coaching for attack and mental prep..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,541 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Ireland's attack is gone to the dogs, it's nothing to do with who plays outhalf, it's by design. We're kicking more, passing & carrying less but kicking more, and without checking I think we're scoring less too.

    We're also seem to be held up over the line a bit more too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Izzy was to be picked for the Wales game but got injured.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭almostover


    Baird has nearly 30 caps and has never really laid claim to a jersey in any of his performances. I think he'd be better off concentrating on becoming a loose head lock because as a 6 he doesn't work. To be honest I'd put Aherne in the same boat, just because he's pacy doesn't mean he's a back row. Should also play as a loose head lock. I haven't watched enough of Izuchukwu other than 1 underwhelming performance vs. Fiji to comment.

    McNabney at Ulster is the one to look out for as a blindside.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭50HX


    Would agree with most of that, he should have ripped it up given the opposition and also lack of time at 10 in the previous weeks.

    I don't know is it me or not but watching the match sat I felt alot more ball goes through the 10's hands when there is familiarity between the 9 &10.

    Look back at the same game last year with casey & crowley



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭almostover


    Bit of a left field suggestion from me here but would there be any merit in trying a Prendergast 10 and Crowley 12 combination over the summer? It would require a physical 13 to make gainline success but perhaps having 2 playmakers in midfield might give us some sort of cutting edge in attack? The current selection of centres were hopeless this year in that regard. Would Osborne make a good 13 in that selection?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭almostover


    Let's be honest, the 10 debate is a distraction from the real issue. The team is poorly coached and trying to play a game plan that doesn't suit the team's strengths. I'd hope Leinster get rid of Neinabaer, we don't have the profile of players here to play that hugely physical off-ball type game. And unfortunately it's bleeding into the national team.

    We could have had prime Sexton at 10 the last 2 games and I don't think the results would have been much different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭50HX


    For me Osbourne has to be given a fair crack at 12 which is summer tour & all the November games to start with

    Bar injuries I don't see him starting at 12 for leinster come 1/4 finals onwards



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭LostArt


    Unfortunately for him if Henshaw and Jordi are fit it's likely he won't make the 23 in the business end of Europe



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