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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans lifted - see OP**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,008 ✭✭✭✭briany


    It's probably going to be a mystery that endures.

    Ian Bailey will always be the one most suspected, but despite his history of drunken fights with Jules Thomas, it's just hard to envisage him going up to that house to batter someone to death who he either didn't know, or barely knew. Like, if he was capable of that type of violence to that type of person, Jules Thomas probably would have died a long time ago by his hand, given that he was also capable of being violent towards her to begin with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,340 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    He may have struck Sophie into submission initially, not fatally , but upon realising she could identify him he decided to finish her off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    That's a very possible scenario. One I posted about earlier strange that others haven't come to this also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I think it will always be a difference of opinion.

    If Bailey really did it, he would have behaved differently.

    He would have given a different statement, something like never having left the house that night, never been to the studio at all. Not having an alibi would have been the same for everyone or mostly everyone else that night. He would have stayed quiet, probably not even reported on the murder, and even if asked made up some excuse, something like lack of access to real credible information.

    He would have gone quiet for a few weeks, stayed out of the public light, no or fewer pub visits, maybe answered some general questions the police asked everyone, and quietly slipped away. A trip to England, a story about a family member with health issues, and maybe stayed there.

    And as there were nothing in evidence linking him to the scene of the crime the matter would have been over done for him, even if say the Irish police asked for DNA evidence which he may have submitted to the police in the UK.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Bailey to a certain extent was meant to be a useful idiot to go down for this - a drunk, a woman beater, an oddball, a blow-in, someone perfect to fit up for this murder.

    However, despite their apparent confidence, those investigating the murder have absolutely nothing to link him to it - no DNA, no association between them, no evidence, no witnesses, nothing! In fact it is the opposite - the woman he did beat to a pulp insists on his innocence. The fact that no DNA exists from the murderer that we know of shows that it was unlikely to have been the drunkard Bailey - the man the gardai alleged was covered in scratches but who didn't think it would be necessary to take a single photo of those scratches (sure a simple crayon drawing is good enough 🙄)

    That people are still mentioning Bailey would make you wonder how much they know about the case and shows how much people have been fed by a biased investigation along with a biased media.

    That nobody on the force has been reprimanded for how the original investigation was carried out, including telling locals that he did it, is criminal - it would make you wonder if any new investigation would be any different: one hopes it will, even just to get justice for Sophie!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,859 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Well, we can't be sure that nobody got told off for the godawful wreck they made of the investigation. Maybe words were had in some private office - they were certainly deserved.

    A "Cold case review" does kind of imply that a new pair of eyes, a fresh pair of hands may see some insights on this case that were overlooked or ignored on the first round. I really hope so.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Well, we can't be sure that nobody got told off for the godawful wreck they made of the investigation. Maybe words were had in some private office - they were certainly deserved.

    So "words" would suffice for AGS members yet again stitching up someone for a high-profile murder (and no, I'm not some nutjob conspiracy theorist!)?

    We've had far too many scum members of AGS such as O'Carroll allow innocent members of the public get stitched up for murders they didn't commit (obviously a few slaps helped them get a confession)!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,008 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Sophie's clothing when her body was found was nightwear and boots. It would suggest that she had been in her home, probably in bed, but put footwear on to go outside.

    I think that if I were a woman, residing alone in an isolated holiday home and I heard a strange man's voice calling out to me or rapping on my front door in the middle of the night, I'd probably be a tad apprehensive about going out to meet them. In fact, I'd probably not respond at all. It's possible Sophie was a different kind of person, though, who didn't think the worst of people.

    So then, she goes out and her murderer beats her to death with a breeze block. I suppose if one thinks this was Bailey, this occurred after she rebuffed him romantically. Pretty bad way to handle rejection.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Yes, but there are two important assumptions in that scenario. Firstly, that it was the middle of the night. It may have been, of course, but to my mind the evidence points to the incident occurring in the morning…in daylight.

    Secondly, that it was a stranger. If Sophie recognised the person at the gate, or the door, she would probably be less cautious .

    I do agree though, that she probably put on the boots with the intention of going outside.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,179 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    I presume the Gardai would have scoured logs of flights to and from Ireland for persons of interest around the time of the murder?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,859 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Yes, they did. But it was pretty hard to identify any "persons of interest"

    I believe they looked into flights to France from Cork Airport. Her family had NOT travelled and there weren't really any other names to look for. The locals all seem to have stayed local!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The "fresh pair of eyes" doesn't really help, if there is no new evidence. It's still the same lack of any evidence pointing to anybody.

    They most certainly didn't even know whom to look for in the first place. If somebody did travel over from France, it would have been a name unknown to the police.

    I would also suggest that the data on passengers travelled to and from Ireland is no longer available, it's too long back. Anybody wishing to hide the trip, could have easily done so, a connecting flight via another city, a forged passport and no biometrics back then and the police would have been in the dark forever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,340 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    The boots may have been her usual choice of footwear indoors, instead of slippers or whatever. That might suggest she encountered the visitor at the front door and he forcibly entered the house or was invited in. An incident of some sort took place which prompted her to run for her life. How prescient that transpired to be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Well, that's a possibility, but there are many, many, possibilities. However, if we focus on liklihood, then it is more likely that Sophie donned the boots to go outside. That is what most people would do. Sophie had a pair of white moccasin slippers in the kitchen and they would have been more likely, to be her regular indoor footwear. Also, there is no evidence of a struggle at the door - apart from the blood smear on the door itself, which, given its shape and position, is probably linked to the opening, closing or trying of the door handle.

    I'm also dubious about her fleeing from an attacker at the door and running down to the gate. It seems to me that it would be more rational to retreat inside the house in such circumstances.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    There is plenty of evidence that hasn't been released, the new pairs of eyes could potentially see something with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,179 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    Dublin airport was too much for them? It's a 2 hour drive from Dublin to Cork city. The major inboard port of entry. That's nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    The husband has never been in the spotlight, a very wealthy/powerful man whose wife was living abroad and having multiple affairs, how much would he lose in a divorce. Then there his associate that was spotted following Sophie the day before her murder

    "The police have his name but no address. He was spotted following Sophie in Schull, Co Cork by shopkeeper Marie Farrell, on the day before she was murdered on December 23, 1996"

    Two years later he was remarried



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,289 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    A bit more than 2 hours in 1996. Double it and then some.

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    True, still all ports and airports should have had their records checked or copied for further examination at some later date.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Evidence that was not included in the original DPP submissions? Given that much of the evidence we do know about was either destroyed or has gone AWOL, I wouldn't hold out too much hope that any other evidence was fully preserved.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,179 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    Ok, per Wikipedia, the road was built between 06 and 10, so this is a factor in terms of journey time, but should not rule out checking flight records from Dublin. Surely that was done.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M8_motorway_(Ireland)#:~:text=The%20M8%20motorway%20(Irish%3A%20M%C3%B3tarbhealach,capital%20Dublin%20to%20Cork%20city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Exiled Rebel


    There was a BBC podcast a couple of years back which spoke about a "sallow" skin individual who was spotted in schull acting strangely across the road from a shop which Sophie was in at the time (I'm guessing the fact he had "sallow" skin stood out in 1996 Ireland).

    If I recall correctly he was strangely interested in her. This occurred the day or more correctly multiple hours before she died. The next day the same individual made his way to Galway where he paid a travel agent for a flight to Paris from Dublin in cash (a cash payment being totally normal back then then but why travel from schull to Galway to book a last minute flight to Paris from Dublin???). He somehow made his way to Dublin and presumably took the flight. This fella has never been identified and the podcast says the Gardai never followed up on the lead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    They know his name but have never been able to locate or interview him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,859 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Which podcast is this, please? I'd like to check it out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,836 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Is this the same man who left a B+B in west Cork without paying?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Exiled Rebel




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Exiled Rebel


    The podcast suggests he was an unknown figure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,289 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Sophie had either friends or relations living near Loughrea in Galway. Before she bought her house in West Cork she visited them often and used Maurice Sweeney the travel agent to book her flights. She used a Loughrea solicitor to buy her Cork house. This article doesn't mention the name of the man Sweeney dealt with, but it sounds like Bruno Carbonnet;

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sophies-friend-was-twice-cleared-by-gardai/26462893.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,218 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    It’s sad that the months and years are going by and nothing new. I do wonder if Gardai come to the conclusion that Bailey more than likely had nothing to do with this murder, that they would admit it.

    For that to happen they would need to be asking for the public’s help on a new or different lead - so many “lines of investigation” not properly investigated in the first instance and likely too late for many of those now considering that many potential suspects have passed away no less people’s memories fading.

    Given the current evidence against Bailey there’s no way I’ll believe he was involved - the FBI DNA analysis results, whenever they arrive, is likely the only chance Gardai have of a plausible link between Sophie and her killer - if they find Baileys DNA then it’s game over- and I’d happily accept that- I just hope they find something that could lead them to the killer , whether they’re still alive or not



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,859 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Thank you! Yes, I've seen heard that podcast; They are scrupulously fair-minded, if i recall. Lending an ear to all ideas, no judging.



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