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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Being 'outplayed' by your opposite number does not mean he played badly.

    He was one of our better forwards against Wales, him and Morgan were very closely aligned on the stat sheets.

    Ben Curry played 7 against us and VdF absolutely outplayed him, so you can stop lying right there.

    As I've pointed out before, fans from every top tier nation in World Rugby see Van Der Flier for the class act he is except for fans in Ireland - who for some bizarre reason (see also: Ringrose) try to make up things to make him come across as a worse player than he actually is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,227 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Harping back to that Hate Sexton Post above

    This is a discussion forum, it should be ok for posters to have an opinion that a player played poorly without another poster resorting to you hate the player, or hate Ireland or or hate Farrell . It really doesn't reflect well on the forum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 297 ✭✭Trey13


    Overall view coming away from that game is that France were unbelievable for a 25-30 minute period after we went ahead early in the second half. It was difficult for us to match them physically, which is ultimately what rugby comes down to at any level.

    A lot of discourse around the 10 situation. Sam was poor yesterday but I don't really see any problem playing him for every game in this championship. He will benefit from the experience and the longer term hope would be that we will have two 10s capable of playing to a high level in international rugby.

    What I do think is a deeper issue however is the depth of our squad. France could roll off all their subs with immediate impact. Yesterday we basically couldn't bring on Herring, Healy or Murray until the game ended. This has been the case with LHP and 9 for some time now. A part of it is selection policy where the coaches just haven't gone with Boyle. Another part of it is that we don't really have many players knocking the door down for selection with their performances for their provinces. A lot has been made of the Leinster bias which I don't think exists from a coaching perspective. How many Ireland players have come through in the last 10-15 years from Munster or Ulster? Connacht in fairness probably punch above their weight in that respect. I think the state of the provinces is the real issue here and maybe is beginning to manifest itself on the pitch now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭almostover


    The problem with many of the replacements is they're also 2nd choice for Leinster. So they're not getting enough starts in the big provincial games before they're in the matchday squad for Ireland.

    I'm not blaming Leinster for this, or that these guys aren't the next best in their position. The issue is that the players at the other 3 provinces, barring a few individuals, are well behind their contemporaries in blue. It's a bad sign when Leinster's 2nd choice is legitimately also Ireland's 2nd choice. That means there are 3 starters in that position at the other 3 provinces who aren't up to scratch.

    That is a major major issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    So what's the solution?

    Milne and Barron are heading south next season. Loughman, Salanoa, Illo, Aungier, Jack Mcgrath, Moore, Dooley, Ed Byrne and Lasisi have all came through in the Leinster academy. Some have moved to another province, Moore via a few years at wasps. Ed Byrne is gone to Cardiff.

    If the other provinces aren't producing guys good enough to bench for Ireland then the solution is??



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    this is it… not enough fitst teamewrs playing. or subbing.

    look at clarkson as a sub yesterday. he is behind Slimani, at leinster. but still ahead of every other TH besides Bealham?

    something has to change there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    I honestly think this is just verging on overthinking the whole issue tbh.

    Is it an issue? Yes

    Is it the reason we struggled versus NZL and France? No. Ultimately what both had in common for me, and its a buzz word at this point, conservatism. What I've noticed throughout this season is we've managed our squad well…except for NZL & France i.e the 2 big games for us. In these games it feels like we've gone for the safest team possible with little risk whereas the other games we've played. What these safe selections indicate to me is a team that's more fearful of losing the game than a side backing themselves to win and tbh it manifested in the way we played. Idk about others but for me the big red flag was Doris being held up, it just looked like we were more worried about getting turned over so wanted to score ASAP and as a result lost all our patients which led to Doris running into 2 bodies and getting held up…Ireland in 2023 for instance would have gone through 4-5 more phases and patiently waited for their opportunity to strike.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    It isn't in the pudding, it's in the eating. Can't even get that right. 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭Juventu4


    But you know right well that if he was fit and on form he still wouldn't be selected plus like Ahern he's a natural big athlete, that's something you can't train.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,943 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    The writing was on the wall when the crew of aging players were selected into the squad. They have generally played well, POM having one of his best tournaments for example, but it is frankly a ridiculous choice. The gap between them and some of the younger players is slim to non-existent, and saying their experience is too valuable ignores that we're preventing these younger lads from building that experience.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭Juventu4


    Healy offers no impact off the bench so Porter is flogged so no matter how good he is a 125kg man after 60 mins is burnt. Yes O'Mahony has workrate nut lacks a bit of power in games like these that forces Doris to be our real main backrow carrying option in the backrow. VDF was quiet, he needs someone like Hodnett breathing down his neck.

    The fact is Ireland go too conservative and flog the dead horse. Example is I think Cardiff 2017 a game we lost against Wales, Murray gets injured in the 1st half and he's playing on 1 arm, luckily it's near half time and they get him off without subbing him so he can be assessed, come the 2nd half he's back on still visibly injured playing on 1 arm everyones like WTF! Eventually Marmion replaces him and he has a decent showing, but any scrum half in Ireland must be looking at that sickened thinking even if i play well the coaches still won't select me the end result is lack of competition kills competitiveness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭almostover


    Need to get our act together in the other 3 provinces. And the IRFU need to provide financial help to the other 3 provinces with respect to player development. There's no short term solution, it's going to be a long term thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Was Tom ahern named in the squad update last week?

    I'd like to see Boyle and him start next week



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Well that too, under the radar but the selection that was a red flag for me was Herring. Based on selections this season Gus McCarthy has been 3rd choice behind Sheehan & Kelleher but in this game all of a sudden Herring is on the bench. Now both are a big step down from the top 2, McCarthy will get there as he's extremely talented, but the fact we weren't even willing to make a selection call like that for me was concerning.

    Well we we've got the evidence that their experience isnt valuable, its a mind set that really needs to change in Irish rugby if we want overcome our QF curse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,943 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I'm sure the team next week will be largely unchanged. The message will be about giving the guys a chance to redeem themselves, and they'll probably put in a good show.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Agree, and I think that's the mindset that has to change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,675 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Why would you be dropping our best centre, Bundee Aki? That's the guy that was in running for world player of year in '23 and player's player of the year last year.

    Conan mustn't be fully fit. That's the only reason I can think of for him being on the bench and POM starting.

    Leinster have a tried and trusted youth development plan and I expect it to continue producing top class players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,595 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Which I think is a mistake. Odds are we will finish 3rd regardless of the result so it's a free hit out to develop some players in a proper 6 nations game. We rarely have a dead rubber like this to use and it would be a wasted opportunity to not make changes. Italy have a defense like a sieve so any Ireland team should win regardless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Conan has regularly been on the bench behind POM so that isnt the reason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    The Bundee that played against Wales and the Bundee that played against France seem like 2 different players.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,595 ✭✭✭techdiver


    He got a boot to the head early on and wasn't right after.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,943 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,675 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Pretty much every back that played against France was poor at best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,675 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Well then the coaches believe POM is the best option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭MangleBadger




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,102 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Thought that Jack Crowley lad did well. Young lad, but looks to have a high ceiling. I especially like when he held up the opposition 10 in a choke tackle turning over the ball. Bit too physical for a 10 if you ask me, all of us in the know, know that that you don't want your ten getting bogged down in grunt work like tackling or carrying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    Prendergast carried for 45 metres yesterday. One of the highest on the team. Also his metres gained per carry this campaign are roughly double those of Jack last campaign. But don’t let statistics get in the way of trying to put a dig in against a kid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭jprender




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭MangleBadger




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives




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