Agreed
Well then the coaches believe POM is the best option.
Pretty much every back that played against France was poor at best.
Agree completely
He got a boot to the head early on and wasn't right after.
The Bundee that played against Wales and the Bundee that played against France seem like 2 different players.
Conan has regularly been on the bench behind POM so that isnt the reason.
Which I think is a mistake. Odds are we will finish 3rd regardless of the result so it's a free hit out to develop some players in a proper 6 nations game. We rarely have a dead rubber like this to use and it would be a wasted opportunity to not make changes. Italy have a defense like a sieve so any Ireland team should win regardless.
Why would you be dropping our best centre, Bundee Aki? That's the guy that was in running for world player of year in '23 and player's player of the year last year.
Conan mustn't be fully fit. That's the only reason I can think of for him being on the bench and POM starting.
Leinster have a tried and trusted youth development plan and I expect it to continue producing top class players.
Agree, and I think that's the mindset that has to change.
I'm sure the team next week will be largely unchanged. The message will be about giving the guys a chance to redeem themselves, and they'll probably put in a good show.
Well that too, under the radar but the selection that was a red flag for me was Herring. Based on selections this season Gus McCarthy has been 3rd choice behind Sheehan & Kelleher but in this game all of a sudden Herring is on the bench. Now both are a big step down from the top 2, McCarthy will get there as he's extremely talented, but the fact we weren't even willing to make a selection call like that for me was concerning.
Well we we've got the evidence that their experience isnt valuable, its a mind set that really needs to change in Irish rugby if we want overcome our QF curse.
Was Tom ahern named in the squad update last week?
I'd like to see Boyle and him start next week
Need to get our act together in the other 3 provinces. And the IRFU need to provide financial help to the other 3 provinces with respect to player development. There's no short term solution, it's going to be a long term thing.
Healy offers no impact off the bench so Porter is flogged so no matter how good he is a 125kg man after 60 mins is burnt. Yes O'Mahony has workrate nut lacks a bit of power in games like these that forces Doris to be our real main backrow carrying option in the backrow. VDF was quiet, he needs someone like Hodnett breathing down his neck.
The fact is Ireland go too conservative and flog the dead horse. Example is I think Cardiff 2017 a game we lost against Wales, Murray gets injured in the 1st half and he's playing on 1 arm, luckily it's near half time and they get him off without subbing him so he can be assessed, come the 2nd half he's back on still visibly injured playing on 1 arm everyones like WTF! Eventually Marmion replaces him and he has a decent showing, but any scrum half in Ireland must be looking at that sickened thinking even if i play well the coaches still won't select me the end result is lack of competition kills competitiveness.
The writing was on the wall when the crew of aging players were selected into the squad. They have generally played well, POM having one of his best tournaments for example, but it is frankly a ridiculous choice. The gap between them and some of the younger players is slim to non-existent, and saying their experience is too valuable ignores that we're preventing these younger lads from building that experience.
But you know right well that if he was fit and on form he still wouldn't be selected plus like Ahern he's a natural big athlete, that's something you can't train.
It isn't in the pudding, it's in the eating. Can't even get that right. 🤣
I honestly think this is just verging on overthinking the whole issue tbh.
Is it an issue? Yes
Is it the reason we struggled versus NZL and France? No. Ultimately what both had in common for me, and its a buzz word at this point, conservatism. What I've noticed throughout this season is we've managed our squad well…except for NZL & France i.e the 2 big games for us. In these games it feels like we've gone for the safest team possible with little risk whereas the other games we've played. What these safe selections indicate to me is a team that's more fearful of losing the game than a side backing themselves to win and tbh it manifested in the way we played. Idk about others but for me the big red flag was Doris being held up, it just looked like we were more worried about getting turned over so wanted to score ASAP and as a result lost all our patients which led to Doris running into 2 bodies and getting held up…Ireland in 2023 for instance would have gone through 4-5 more phases and patiently waited for their opportunity to strike.
this is it… not enough fitst teamewrs playing. or subbing.
look at clarkson as a sub yesterday. he is behind Slimani, at leinster. but still ahead of every other TH besides Bealham?
something has to change there.
So what's the solution?
Milne and Barron are heading south next season. Loughman, Salanoa, Illo, Aungier, Jack Mcgrath, Moore, Dooley, Ed Byrne and Lasisi have all came through in the Leinster academy. Some have moved to another province, Moore via a few years at wasps. Ed Byrne is gone to Cardiff.
If the other provinces aren't producing guys good enough to bench for Ireland then the solution is??
The problem with many of the replacements is they're also 2nd choice for Leinster. So they're not getting enough starts in the big provincial games before they're in the matchday squad for Ireland.
I'm not blaming Leinster for this, or that these guys aren't the next best in their position. The issue is that the players at the other 3 provinces, barring a few individuals, are well behind their contemporaries in blue. It's a bad sign when Leinster's 2nd choice is legitimately also Ireland's 2nd choice. That means there are 3 starters in that position at the other 3 provinces who aren't up to scratch.
That is a major major issue.
Overall view coming away from that game is that France were unbelievable for a 25-30 minute period after we went ahead early in the second half. It was difficult for us to match them physically, which is ultimately what rugby comes down to at any level.
A lot of discourse around the 10 situation. Sam was poor yesterday but I don't really see any problem playing him for every game in this championship. He will benefit from the experience and the longer term hope would be that we will have two 10s capable of playing to a high level in international rugby.
What I do think is a deeper issue however is the depth of our squad. France could roll off all their subs with immediate impact. Yesterday we basically couldn't bring on Herring, Healy or Murray until the game ended. This has been the case with LHP and 9 for some time now. A part of it is selection policy where the coaches just haven't gone with Boyle. Another part of it is that we don't really have many players knocking the door down for selection with their performances for their provinces. A lot has been made of the Leinster bias which I don't think exists from a coaching perspective. How many Ireland players have come through in the last 10-15 years from Munster or Ulster? Connacht in fairness probably punch above their weight in that respect. I think the state of the provinces is the real issue here and maybe is beginning to manifest itself on the pitch now.
Harping back to that Hate Sexton Post above
This is a discussion forum, it should be ok for posters to have an opinion that a player played poorly without another poster resorting to you hate the player, or hate Ireland or or hate Farrell . It really doesn't reflect well on the forum.
Being 'outplayed' by your opposite number does not mean he played badly.
He was one of our better forwards against Wales, him and Morgan were very closely aligned on the stat sheets.
Ben Curry played 7 against us and VdF absolutely outplayed him, so you can stop lying right there.
As I've pointed out before, fans from every top tier nation in World Rugby see Van Der Flier for the class act he is except for fans in Ireland - who for some bizarre reason (see also: Ringrose) try to make up things to make him come across as a worse player than he actually is.
In many ways I think the departure of Lancaster from Leinster has hurt Ireland more than anything else. With the total about face that Leinster have managed in playing style, I don't think the core of the Irish team that comes from Leinster are able to play the same kind of high skill ball in hand game that they used to be able to. They certainly can't do it for Leinster and it is hard to just turn that on for internationals.
I think selection was fairly far down the list of issues yesterday. I do not understand starting McCarthy over Ryan and I probably would have gone with Conan and Doris starting in the backrow and a 5-3 bench. But that wouldn't have changed the fact that we were absolutely monstered physically up front. I hate the held up law but everyone knows it and those two held ups were never going to be scores. We just lacked the physicality to get over the line. Our wingers were not good, but it's hard to argue that they weren't the best two available either given injuries and it is a massive issue going forward. I think we were unlucky and a few small things could have gone our way and it would at least have been a closer game but not sure we were ever going to be winning that. I don't really think it is a "blueprint" to beat Ireland as there are vanishingly few times who can bring that level of physicality.
On guard jury as ever
Get over your Hate Comments they do nothing for the thread
What annoys me is that we didn't even bring another no.7 to this tournament. Not 1. We've backed VdF as our only option. At least we've tried fellas in other positions, Boyle at LH, Clarkson at TH, Baird at 6 etc.
It's VdF or bust at 7. Doris ended up there after 48 mins yesterday. Or was it Baird? Either way, when other teams are playing 2 opensides to go after the breakdown we're playing 1 and hoping he can go 80 mins week in week out. It's crazy selection policy.
We were told by some poster on here that it's like for like, comparing him to Hansen 😂
In fairness to him he isn't a winger. The other two were very very poor though.
