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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    It needs to stop, especially when the "trusted" player really isnt that good anymore. If we are dropping McCarthy for Ryan then that makes some sense as Ryan is still a quality player…POM isnt.

    The game has really moved on from 2011, I don't think at the highest level you can afford to carry players anymore.

    I'm totally fine with having older players if those said players are still doing a good job at the highest level. Vermeulen in 2019 was arguably the best N8 in the World so while older he still brought a ton to the table. Same with the likes of Carter in 2015.

    For Ireland I'm fine with Aki for instance or even the likes of Lowe, JGP, Beirne, Conan as they are all still top-quality operators. The likes of Healy, Herring, Henderson, Murray, POM etc dont offer enough to be part of an aspiring top team and needed to be moved on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭Packrat


    ^^^This is little more than fact resistant trolling now.

    Healy and Murray haven't played 30 mins between them. How have they lost us the championship?

    Which of McCarthy SP or Osborne plays at 6? as you've said you prefer them over O'Mahony

    Moving the best lock we have to 6? Because that definitely worked when they tried to force a space for McCarthy last year.. Jesus... Even the biased management gave up on that..

    Have you ever actually watched a rugby match?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,970 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I have to say I'd like to see POM put off his retirement for a year. He's still an important member of the 23, there's nobody coming through yet to replace him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    I've named 4 options that should be ahead of him. Nobody else has been given a proper opportunity to replace him, that's the issue.

    As per usual, we wont find a players successor until that player has retired…typical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    I've already told you numerous times why they've cost us the championship, just scroll back and read.

    And you accuse me of trolling…I think you know very well what I meant when talking about Osborne, SP, McCarthy.

    If you truly believe the other 6's aren't up to it then we should play Beirne at 6…the reality is 4. McCarthy 5. Ryan 6. Beirne is preferable than playing POM at 6, going back to POM was a big mistake and should have rung alarm bells for everyone that we were making the same mistakes we have in the past with flogging a dead horse.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,970 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Izuchukwu and Cian Prendergast got a shot against Fiji and neither did enough to be even considered an option for the bench.

    And I'm a Connacht fan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭Packrat


    Are you trying to give them heart attacks!! Lol...

    No, Pete is better off out of it now, whilst he's still playing well.

    The fallout and blame game for what will happen next year is going to be epic when a few of the current 'freak of nature' or 'high ceiling' swans turn out to be ducks.

    Better off away from that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    So they get 1 shot and that's it? 50 minutes isn't anywhere near enough game time to establish weather a player is up to it or not. Whatever about Prendergast but with Izuchukwu with his build and style of play we should be backing him. By backing him it means being patient and giving him consistent minutes in the jersey, not 50 minutes…then hooking him only to never see him again.

    It's this sort of mindset that leads to a team having a past it 36-year-old playing at 6.

    The way Ireland play they need a big, strong, athletic 6…POM isnt that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭roverjoyce


    What a waste of a Six Nations this year was,

    giving game time to 3 players who you know are retiring,

    And letting them run out first was an embarrassment when has this ever happened before



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭Packrat


    You're contradicting yourself.

    POM is too old you say, So replace him with a young player - ok, then in the same breath you suggest moving the functioning lock out of position to 6. Beirne is 33. Two years younger than PoM, and is a less mobile player. Besides this was ALREADY tried and didn't work.

    Its almost like people want Beirne at 6 so he can fail and be dumped whilst Big Lazy Joe takes his place at lock... madness.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I'll be kind here, this is absolute waffle and nothing but waffle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Name me a time a NZL,SA,FRA did that? This was Grand Slam decider…it's about winning, not giving someone a send off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Again, just read my comments and you'll see I'm not contradicting myself. I said its okay to have an older player if that player is still playing great rugby at the highest level. Beirne for instance is one of the best players in the world and a certain Lions starter, POM isn't even close to touring…that's the difference in standard. It did work, did you not see the game in SA? That was far more effective a display then anything we've seen with POM at 6 this 6N.

    Beirne at 6 is only one of the options I mentioned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    You can say it waffle all you like but the proof is in the pudding.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    You're harping on about POM and it sounds like you don't understand rugby because other than using cliches you give no real evidence of why he should not be starting.

    Oddly enough, our two worst performers from the starting 15 yesterday were our youngest back and our youngest forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭MattressRick


    Apparently that's what Ireland do every 4 years and it's still the same outcome in the World Cup. They gave lots of players game time to get exposure, yet they were riddled with nerves and full of mistakes in the first 20 mins against New Zealand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    I understand plenty about rugby actually. I gave plenty if you read my post, for our style to be most affective we need a big, strong , athletic 6…POM doesn't tick any of those categories compared to his pears.

    Those "worst performers" at least had their moments where they tried to make something happen…i'd rather that than anonymous Pete.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    You've confirmed my initial thoughts when I saw your username, thanks, I'm out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,970 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Where are you going to play Izuchukwu? He plays second row for Ulster. He looked lost at 6 against Fiji.

    So Prendergast is next up. He's not having a great season to this point.

    O'Mahoney is still strong, he's experienced and he's smart. He just doesn't have anything close to 80 minutes in him but he's a great bench option. He and Conan are a great fit together as a starter and replacement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    No, POM starts or he's not in the 23, definitely not an international match of importance.

    It's a manufactured debate here anyway, similar to the Crowley pile on after the defeat to NZ.

    Our pack were out muscled yesterday and suddenly POM is the issue



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    He's playing SR due to injuries, he's a 6. Then you play him again, a player of his athletic ability is hard to find. You aren't going to find anywhere near enough about a player based on just 50 minutes of rugby, he's been one of the best forwards in Irish rugby this season so its worth giving him a proper crack. This chopping and changing and never giving a young player consistent time to grow into a position is exactly why we end up having a past it 36-year-old at 6.

    Well he's 36 and played over 100 games…I'd expect him to be smart and experience. Is he any stronger than the other players I mentioned? He certainly doesn't have their size or athletic ability anyway so I would hope he is strong to make up for it.

    Even Conan at 6 would make more sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭Packrat


    It's unbelievable. I'd expect no more on FB.. or Twatter...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,073 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    I'd be promoting conan to start at 6 now. Possibly look at Coombes in a new impact role, but he seems to be out of favour. I just think he would contribute in the right role, he's not an international starter though. I don't like Baird as an international player against the big teams, just don't think he has the fight in him. Great athlete but goes missing.

    I wouldn't put POM, Murray or Healy in the 23 for Italy now, they had their home send off and it must be close to 50/50 with some of the replacements

    Ryan and Beirne in 2nd row. McCarthy impact sub.

    Osbourne and ringrose centres. Henshaw covering a number of back positions.

    I'd start crowley at 10 and prendergast on bench in our normal 5/3 split. I see this as a long term partnership between the 2 of them to develop both.

    Furlong back into 23 assuming he is fit to come off bench. Although I fear he is in twilight now and we won't see the player we all loved over the years.

    Hopefully Lowe and Hansen are available.

    There are too many variables next week to think we are realistic championship winners not to make a few changes. Nothing radical there I feel, just freshening up.

    Long term, there needs to be 4 competitive teams in Irish provinces. Munster best placed to improve at the moment but short a few top class operators. I think Ahern and Gleeson will make step up by WC 27 to replace the likes of Beirne, Conan.

    Without leinster we would be at the level of Wales and Scotland fighting it out for 3rd/4th place but leinster are coming to the end of 2nd golden generation now, a 3rd generation is a tough ask, maybe they will, maybe they won't. France have toulouse and bordeaux up at or above leinsters level to heavily contribute to national team, plus 12 other teams to cherry pick a player or 2 from, like that la rochelle flanker that played centre yesterday, they'll never be stuck once they have their heads in the game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    When you have to carry a forward against a pack as big as France it's a big issue actually.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61 ✭✭shimmieandshake


    Lots of kneejerk commentary.

    Understandable to a point - it was an upsetting performance - but we were maybe due a stuffing. We had a bad day, France had a good day. They were clinical, we weren't. The French defended out of their skins. Not sure if I'm being one-eyed, but felt like some crucial decisions went against us. The penalty against Porter from the kick-off was farce.

    I think we're a long way from panic stations, and if anything, today will be very helpful in the long term. It's illuminated an over-dependence on Lowe's 'something from nothing' ability and a general lack of speed.

    I suspect all the angst about the aging squad will fade this summer/autumn. Players like Ben Murphy, Hugh Gavin, McNabney, Postlethwaite, Jack Boyle, Brian Gleeson and so on will be playing against Romania and Portugal. Gus McCarthy, Izzy and Jamie Osbourne will bed in more. The new blood that goes well there will be involved for a stacked Autumn International fixture list, and then on into the 2026 Six Nations. The evolution will accelerate soon.

    My main question at this stage: anybody know what's going on with JOB? Last I saw of him, he came back from injury (maybe at the start of this season?) looking sharper/faster than ever.

    Another question: any quick/elusive outside backs coming through in the u20s sides of the last two/three seasons?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Ireland has book ended their home games this season with losses and Wales tested us more than anyone here expected.

    Our attack seems disjointed, more a game of chipping/kicking ahead and try and capitalise, our discipline is poor and some of our handling is abysmal, especially in the game v NZ



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    I don't know why they won't have a look at Coombes at 6. He covers two backrow positions and lock as well but more importantly he gives Ireland exactly what they need, a genuine try scoring threat when camped on the opposition line. We have a massive issue with converting pressure into points and Coombes is someone who could help with that. Yes, he's not the most explosive player but he'll make 15 tackles, carry all day and be a real bastard in the tight. Its exactly what we need. He has a great pair of hands too. What's to be lost by looking at him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,292 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123247029#Comment_123247029

    it truly is Bizarre, but it is what it is for now, until the world cup seedings are made..

    when's that? pre 2026 6-nations?

    He will get a few games this summer, but back to the usual for the AIs.

    I can see ROG coming in for him, if ROG extends his own contract at La Rochelle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 502 ✭✭✭The Macho Man


    Its fairly obvious to me the day Mike Catt walked out the door after the SA tour, Ireland have regressed. In every way. Attack is borderline one dimensional. At times disjointed. We don't have the slick, fluid, constantly changing the point of attack anymore. Ruck resourcing is poor. Turnovers are high.

    Even in defence, we're not as strong. We've gone very narrow. If Farrell doesnt address that we're in trouble big time.

    If changes need to be made do it now, and build towards the next WC.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,294 ✭✭✭TRC10


    The IRFU don’t give a toss about the World Cup. As long as they win the odd 6N, consistently finish in the top 2 and continue to fill out the Aviva at extortionate prices, then the coffers are full and they’re happy. They’ll pay lip service to the World Cup but ultimately they’re very happy with the status quo and have no reason to change.



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