Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

But what arguments are you countering BB? You seem to be just dropping in random whataboutery/stating-the-obvious posts complaining about whataboutery. The lost "The" in your 2nd last paragraph leads me to believe you are struggling to pick an argument point. The fact that you are no longer replying to posters gives the impression you have been caught out and don't want to directly engage. I don't think you know but what is the point you want to argue? Details please. There are some very well informed posters here who will be only too glad to counter.

Many posters tried to be contrarian in this thread just to be difficult and ended up probably feeling embarrassed for defending the indefensible. They don't post too often now. You're on the same path.

Not at all Brendan.

Hamas are a terrorist militia armed with automatic weapons and rocket launchers, operating in one of the most marginalized and prejudiced communities in the world, and as such, as I'm sure you understand, are all the more likely to shift towards extremism.

Hamas may have had a goal of wiping Israel out (I believe they have rescinded that years ago, but let's not split hairs), but Hamas is completely incapable of doing anything close to that.

In this conflict, Hamas have been responsible for 4-5% of the civilian killings, and the territory they want to "wipe off the map", in your words, has remained virtually untouched. I accept that is not through want of trying on Hamas part - you won't find anyone backing them here from what I can see.

You cannot convince me they, a terrorist organisation whose raison detre is to commit terrorist acts, are equally as culpable for all this death and destruction as the democratic country with a modern army, airforce and navy, who are using sophisticated instruments of war against civilians and have killed 95/96% of people in this conflict, displaced millions, and actually wiped a city of 2 million off the map. And who continue to steal land and kill with absolute impunity.

It's like a poor man saying he wants to be a billionaire, and you arguing that revenue should tax him as a such, despite the fact he hasn't a pot to piss in.

Deal with the reality of the situation - Israel should be getting sanctioned to high heaven and it's leaders tried in the international court for it's blatant targeting of civilians (I and many would argue genocide), it's land grabbing, and it's open conversations about ethnic cleansing, which you have all but ignored for some reason.

The state of the latest Palestinian prisoners released back into Gaza is horrendous. Utterly depraved israeli regime to put people through such grotesque confinement

I have to scratch my head at times when I read some of the posts on this particular thread.

The implications from a certain quarter of opinion seems to think that I am trying to “convince” fellow posters

of something?

The only thing I have tried to promulgate is that dialogue,discussion, and agreement between the protagonists is the only way sort out this issue.

I have no intention of getting involved in endless whataboutery and back and forth about who did what , such as who holed up in schools and hospitals and who targeted and killed them.

I look to the future, not beating a particular drum ad nauseum and pursuing lines of argument which will change little or nothing.

Tbh, I have no idea what you are saying on that post, or the general point you are trying to put across in this thread, but I'll admit im not as enlightened an individual as you are making yourself out to be.

Dialogue will not happen between extremists, only moderates or those willing to compromise, and most people on this thread hopes moderates in Israel and Palestine will bring peace. That doesn't negate the fact that violent extremists who are responsible for ethnic cleansing should have their crimes exposed and be punished to the fullest extent of international law.

You tell us you want to "promulgate dialogue and discussion", but it seems to me what you want to do in your posts is shut down dialogue and discussion if it doesn't align with whatever world view you may subscribe to.

We could have replaced the Nuremberg Trials with a Good Friday Agreement so. Just forget about all the murdered children and say '' carry on ''?

Rather strange post there, who is advocating forgetting murdered children and saying ‘carry on’?

….

An arrest warrant issued to an accused to stand trial on allegations of warcrimes (i.e. Netenyahu), is a different thing to bringing someone who has been found responsible for warcrimes to justice (i.e. convicted - like Milosevic).

The former is before the process of the trial, and the latter is after - so I agree with the other poster, they are making sense and the question hasn't been answered.

Apologies so.

Well, not one single post in this thread is going to have any impact on the protagonists is it? So why even state that?

Unless you think the Israeli Govt. and Hamas are reading these discussions and thinking "well, Jeez, @dmcdona actually does have a point ya know…" or the opposite of course.

Nothing on this thread will change anything in the Middle East. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss, debate, argue and put forward viewpoints. I have learned a lot here - on all sides. There are some very knowledgable people with very good points to be made. Doesn't mean I agree and I will rebutt where I think necessary. But it can be respectful.

Seriously, and genuinely with respect, if you don't like the drum beating ad nauseum (which will change nothing as you say) what are you doing here?

If I was on a thread where it all seemed utterly pointless and changed nothing, I'd go find a different thread that actually had some benefit. Or go for a walk.

But if you do want to debate what you think the future should be and how it would achieved, how the protagonists should go about it etc, perhaps you might be pleasantly surprised at how that debate might go.

I'd be very happy if that led to me being a little more educated and informed.

Poster complains about alleged flippancy about dead innocent people of one demographic, whilst also simultaneously being flippant about dead innocent people of another demographic!

Jesus. You have some issues understanding normal English. If someone is responsible for war crimes, either committing them themselves or directing them as policy, then that person should be brought to Justice. I don't know how hard that is to understand!

Oh and just and FYI, no one goes to court to prove their innocence. Courts and prosecutions prove people guilty.

I can't believe i'm answering this but it's the UN who made that Hannibal Directive claim about October 7th, and the UN in my opinion is far from neutral on this matter and is in fact infiltrated by Hamas sympathisers.

Not ridiculous in the least - and just to clarify - you do think Netenyahu should be arrested and face trial in the international court for warcrimes (or attend voluntarily)?