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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭sparky42


    And offering joint investment and more, Trump has no interest in “working with” Allies or Europe, just look at Vance’s comments that we should “share their values” if NATO members expect to helped not just spend on defence. And I’m sure if somehow that happened, then there would be something else they want.


    I’m not a fan of buying American at this point, not just because of Trump but also I think it would serve us better in terms of the EU to be buying European wherever possible, but as I said if it’s going to add even more time to procurement is it the least worst option right now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 BrandyRebel


    Folks, given that at least circa 70% of cables are running through Irelands EEZ, that the US dynamic has changed with why are we not charging ground rent?

    This could be used for upkeep via investment as they say eaten bread is soon forgotten.

    DT TO MM your not paying your way.

    MM goes to Trump your not paying yours.

    Crazy Idea but if the status quo is changing should we not change too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,427 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    To be fair it was at CPAC. And CPAC is more chaotic than a wet Wednesday at Doggy Daycare.

    Besides, Duda is of no value to Trump. He's a remnant from PiS and is at odds with the centrist government of Donald Tusk who holds the purse strings.

    Meanwhile, still no invitation to MM to the Orange House for Paddy's Day



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,884 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I have it. I did like it as being more in-depth than most games, like Cold Waters, and certainly getting a missile firing solution using passive only could be a challenge. On the other hand, if it really is as 'simple' as the game implies, then maybe I've overestimated actual sonar folks.

    The idea of using games for training, though, isn't new at all. These days they're called 'Serious Games', and the licensing for them can be varied. The US Army, for example, received what is in effect a 'site license' for TacOps. If you had a military email address, you could install the wargame on your computer. I've seen Steel Beasts used as a distributed vehicle simulator as well, though licensing is a bit trickier/more strict. And so on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭roadmaster




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 523 ✭✭✭vswr


    Still banking on the Indra Lanza….. particularly after Trump's actions the last few weeks. Imagine buying US now and them holding off updates or re-reg keys if we don't do something they want.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 523 ✭✭✭vswr


    they didn't maintain it, and let the software go out of date



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 523 ✭✭✭vswr


    Marine mammal detection equipment is the direction you want to be looking towards.

    Probably the closest you'll come to public domain tech in this area (funnily enough, usually staffed by ex-navy members :-D )



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    That cant be right that an irish state organisation would let something like that happen!. Its nearly the slogan for this country



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 523 ✭✭✭vswr


    It's a shame, as it's an amazing piece of kit… I imagine there is probably a deal with SAAB to update it… I got to see the British Army version recently, it's small target acquisition and classification system (bird/drone/rocket etc…) along with networking capability was very impressive.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,427 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭sparky42


    It’s interesting timing to be giving away some of the systems, given one of the stated reasons for their purchase was security for diplomatic events. Since we are going to be taking the rotational EU presidency next year, are all of them operational? Will we have enough for the defence role here if we donate a few? Are they being given away as “legacy” equipment (and isn’t that an interesting phrase to use) tied into the purchase of new systems?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Could the Launchers and the Missiles be intergrated into the new upcoming system?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Given the talk about a new Vehicle mounted system, I figure the 70s will just be phased out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 523 ✭✭✭vswr


    they weren't really intertwined as an automatic system… Giraffe was target detection and tracking… 70's were still used in an almost manual setup… so, no reason it can't be used in a similar setup with any new systems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 300 ✭✭mupper2




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,427 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    UK is moving to 2.5% of GDP spend as quickly as possible, and slashing foreign aid to manage it.

    That translates as £76 Billion at today's value. Must be quite a flap on in Whitehall.

    For context, the equivalent figure in Ireland would be €14.1 Billion, or if we use the statistically more representative GNI*, €7.5 Billion.

    We're talking about 3 Billion (adjusted) as a ten year goal, meanwhile serious countries are spending anything between 2 and 3 times that, per capita.

    People talking about having to walk before you can run. We're still flailing about doing tummy time on a piss proof mat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭sparky42


    it’s an extra .2% over the next two years, hardly a massive step change, and realistically unlikely to even fill the procurement blackholes they have right now.

    As for us, as you posted in another thread, no matter what it’s going to take us time no matter how much money is thrown at the question whether we like it or not, blame a hundred years of stupidity on the question of defence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4 EmmaLouise1


    It’s definitely an interesting look at the dynamics within the Irish Defence Forces. The reluctance to deploy, despite it being a core part of military service, highlights a shift in priorities—pay and working conditions seem to dominate over duty and mission readiness. While fair compensation is crucial for morale and retention, it does raise questions about long-term viability if operational commitments become optional.

    The ECFR analysis is a solid read—neutrality in Europe is a complex issue, especially as security landscapes evolve. Austria’s position does seem particularly restrictive in that context!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭sparky42


    The issues to a degree is that due to the falling numbers the deployments are happening more often particularly for specialist areas, no different really in how the ability to deploy the NS has fallen due to retention issues which are pay and conditions related, not sure why that’s surprising?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭sparky42


    So in more news that you wouldn’t believe 10 years ago, and relevant to us buying anything, the Times has it that privately US officials are briefing the U.K. to “recalibrate” its reliance on the US and reconsider purchasing equipment from them, with reports that some in the Trump admin think the U.K. has been getting hardware too cheaply…

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/a591fcae-34c9-4cdc-9f95-7d203cce7879?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,427 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    While its a difficult time for the whole paradigm of the western hemisphere, I wouldn't wish to be in the current position of post-Brexit Britain for all the tea in China.

    Britannia rules the waves? Bobs about like an upended cork in a hurricane more like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    The Brits are in particular with regards to Trident going to discover pretty quickly that have near zero strategic autonomy.

    Their nuclear deterrent is tied to the US at the hip and reliant upon Lockheed Martin service and sustainment. All well and good having their own warheads yet having zero means to deliver them. Even UK freefall nukes were retired in the 90's.

    The French m51 shares a similar missile diameter to Trident and is quite a bit shorter. The UK really, and especially after watching Trump & Vance's attempt to rule Zelensky just now, need to shift away from being reliant on US. Trump wants to play silly buggers regarding the price of Trident? The UK should respond by exploring the M51 as an alternative strategic deterrent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭sparky42


    The changes to the Triple Lock go before Cabinet this week, and the upper limit for deploying troops without seeking approval will be increased to 50 from the current 12.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2025/0302/1499768-triple-lock/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,167 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    So over 50 and we still have to ask Russia and China what we are allowed do with our own forces?

    Just get rid of it.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭sparky42


    no, it’s 50 without the government having to ask, above 50 it’s just the approval of the Daíl.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,427 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Some defence commentator types were suggesting a number of 120 rather than 50.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭sparky42


    I have to say the opposition takes on this are beyond insane, to the point you have Paul Murphy and Far Right Derek making the same argument. You’d swear before the Triple Lock was thought up we were rampaging across the global at the beck and call of Washington and London, or that anyone else on the planet cared about a domestic policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,427 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    They don't even understand what they are talking about. They think it was introduced as part of the Lisbon protocols, when it has actually existed since 1960 and only received the moniker in the media conversation around that debate.

    They also knowingly and falsely claim that it is a matter that could be put to a referendum, when in fact none of the Triple Lock, Neutrality or NATO membership options are in the Constitution. The only aspect that is, is a bar on joining an EU military, very specifically.

    They look hysterical and disingenuous, and thankfully they are getting plenty of push back on social media and in broadcasts.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    The political discourse on the Military in Ireland has long been poisoned by the fact it has never really had anyone to argue its case. We have had an asymmetrical spectrum of opinion;

    -On one side we've had the Tankies who would rather we have either no military or the most feeble military possible.

    -On the other side we have the Government who haven't cared whether we had a military or not and were happy to barely sustain token capabilities in our Defence forces and harvest claps on the back for UN Missions.

    So as far as the public can see, the options are "No military capability" and "Next to no military capability". I'd argue that the government have been perfectly happy to let the Tankies dominate the debate and mislead the public.

    The government have been happy to let the public wrongly believe that neutrality and helplessness are synonyms, or that there's major domestic and international legal issues to deal if we wanted a more capable Defence Forces. It has provided a convenient excuse for inaction and letting our already limited Defence Forces stagnate and shrink.

    I also feel that the emphasis placed on our UN Peacekeeping role has in a sense damaged public perception of the Defence Forces. It has long been the standard script of our politicians to reflexively mention our UN participation, multilateralism, soft power, force for good etc. in every discussion of the Defence Forces.

    But this has lead to a public perception that UN Missions are pretty much the only "real" purpose of the DF. As a result they make no connection between the DF and their role of actually serving in Irish land/airspace/waters. Based on what the government and media put out, the public's perception of what our military could easily be:

    1. -100+ troops form up on a Barrack Square ready to ship out to Lebanon.
    2. -While in Lebanon they patrol (on foot or in MOWAG) and hand out sweets to children.
    3. -Take cover if violence erupts, and consider being withdrawn to Ireland.
    4. -Emotional reunions with family members at Dublin airport.

    As a result there's a perception that the DF's role is something far away, that doesn't involve any actual fighting or engaging hostile forces, that needs minimal investment or equipping, and most importantly is a choice; we commit as much or as little as we want, at a location and time of our choosing.

    The very idea of an unannounced threat, or of a hostile action requiring a military response has been a totally alien concept in Irish public discourse until recently.



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