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Donald Trump the Megathread part II - mod warnings in OP, Updated 18/03/25

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Comments

  • #11972
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,762 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214198#Comment_123214198

    Where do the US get all the things they buy from Europe to avoid having the pay the tariffs that Trump is imposing??

    It is US consumers that will pay the tariffs , not the EU.

    In some cases , they will simply not buy the products , but in a lot of cases , they have no alternative but to buy them.

    For example , if he decides to tariff pharmaceuticals - They still have to buy them , very little of what they buy is stuff they can avoid and even if all the manufacturers said they would move production back to the US , it would take years for them to do so.

    There might be a slow down for some industries , but alternative markets exist , particularly as Trump is going to tariff war with everyone at the same time so everywhere will be interested in moving away from US goods

    Also , Consumer prices in the US will increase massively as Trump is putting tariffs on everyone, everywhere at the same time.

    Trump says that he is going to tariff European cars. But he is also going to tariff Chinese and Canadian Steel and Aluminium ,which will massively drive up the cost of US manufactured cars. I saw an article yesterday that the tariffs would add ~$9k to the price of the average US built SUV/Pickup - the most popular vehicle type.

    So the US cars won't be cheaper than the tariffed EU ones.

    Prices in the EU might go up a little for some things , because as you say US imports to the EU aren't that big of a deal in the majority of sectors. WE aren't buying the food , we aren't buying their cars , we aren't buying their Electrical goods etc.

    So , explain why the EU would "fold" ??

    Trump is under the illusion that the cannot survive without the US , this has never been the case and his actions are if anything accelerating the world moving away from a capricious and unreliable partner.



  • #11973
    Economics101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Economics101


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214646#Comment_123214646

    Trump's latest big lie (on the EU) is not just of historical interest: it is part of an effort to denigrate the EU and kustify punitive tariffs. What is important about the lie is not just its relevance , but the fact that it is so demonstrably false. The Trumpists want to "flood the zone": the pushback has to be relentless when it comes to the really big and totally demonstrable lies.



  • #11974
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,762 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214518#Comment_123214518

    The same people who are now saying "In order to protect you from the horrible threat of near non-existent Trans-athletes , all female athletes will now have to undress in front of some random person and expose their genitals to confirm their true gender"



  • #11975
    circadian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭circadian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214183#Comment_123214183

    I don't think China will row in with two unstable economies. They need stability to weather their own storm and the EU can provide that. China plays the long game and I'd be sure they're eyeing up the potential resource gains available in eastern Russia should they start to faulter.



  • #11976
    Field east
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭Field east


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123212810#Comment_123212810
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123212810#Comment_123212810

    Puriflo , did you ever ask yourself the question why the US/USAID funded ‘all these things’ ? Americans are NOT SO THICK that it handed over cash , etc, etc,etc, etc by it being requested for it and without some oversight etc. Most if not all of the aid was because it was doing HS’s bidding - be it supporting US policy , supporting democracy, Encouraging friendliness, partnerships for future gain , creating goodwill. If The US did not support such work then I GUARANTEe that China and Russia would ‘ fill the gap’ at the very first opportunity



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  • #11977
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,349 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214695#Comment_123214695

    Should be noted that this nonsense is aimed at the MAGA crowd solely. Trump could tell them the UK has been an enemy of the US for the last 50 years and they would believe it and would be repeating it on social media.



  • #11978
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,762 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214738#Comment_123214738

    We have always been at war with Eastasia…



  • #11979
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,720 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214738#Comment_123214738

    Doesn't matter. The consequences will affect Europeans and Americans regardless of what mindbleach MAGA cultists have fed themselves.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #11980
    poop emoji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭poop emoji


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123213544#Comment_123213544

    Krasnov translates as “red” “orange” so it had that going for it



  • #11981
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,762 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123213544#Comment_123213544

    I don't believe for a second that Trump is an actual Russian "Agent" - If for no other reason than he would have told people himself that he was.

    Not a chance that he'd be able to keep something that "cool" to himself, as evidenced by his displaying of Top documents to his "fans" in Mar-a-Lago.

    So , he's not getting secret communiques from the FSB telling him what to do.

    BUT - He has definitely been heavily influenced by Russian intelligence via the Oligarchs that bailed him out when Western banks wouldn't touch him.

    They have been feeding him Russian propaganda for decades and he is now fully bought into their world-view and positions and believes that Putin is a strong leader and that Putin's views on Europe and the rest of the world are correct.

    See yesterdays "The EU was made to destroy us" commentary as an example.

    So yes , he has been bought and paid for by Putins Russia.



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  • #11982
    Economics101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Economics101


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214738#Comment_123214738

    That's true, but…. The MAGA crowd are of course beyond all reasoning with. But its not just MAGA versus the Libs. There are a lot of independents, old-fashioned Conservative Republicans, and others who need to be won over from their previous pro-Trump votes.

    No doubt you have seen the very angry town-hall meetings with MAGA congressmen (and the odd woman). These were in large measure Republican voters who are totally disgusted with Musk, and who can be persuaded that Trump's tariffs are completely bonkers.

    Maybe there is no point in trying to convince the MAGA crowd, but equally there is little point in preaching to the Libs; they are anti-Trump no matter what.



  • #11983
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,040 ✭✭✭✭briany


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214721#Comment_123214721

    If China are playing the long game, they may be contemplating if the US and Russia will be the winners in this episode and that economic instability now doesn't necessarily mean economic instability later. Not to mention that China has plenty of interest in keeping Trump in power if it means he'll wash his hands of Taiwan. .



  • #11984
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,720 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214856#Comment_123214856

    I think "asset" is a much better adjective. "Useful idiot" would also fit quite snugly.

    You are correct. Secret Agent Krasnov would be bragging to all and sundry about his exploits. It's far better and easier for the Russians to let Trump be a slave to his own worst impulses and desires.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #11985
    JPCN1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 939 ✭✭✭JPCN1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214221#Comment_123214221

    Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake.

    They are winning all around them and they are not even trying to.

    Only hope that the MAGA lite and the middle ground start getting jittery. Dems need to find someone who can start ridiculing Trump and calling out the blatant lies.



  • #11986
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭threeball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214518#Comment_123214518

    They'll just pay for or receive a golden passport.



  • #11987
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,040 ✭✭✭✭briany


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214920#Comment_123214920

    The Democrats badly need something to happen to them like a Trump, in the sense of a political outsider coming in an usurping the party base and mobilising them under one cause. The party establishment is never going to produce an antidote to Trump. Their best idea is that people will vote for them after seeing how bad Trump is. That worked one time, but may not do so a second time, if Trump gets rid of free and fair elections.



  • #11988
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭threeball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214856#Comment_123214856

    He's an asset, not an agent. He's far to dumb to be an agent. He would have been executed years ago for treason.

    He's just stupid enough for him to be manipulated and they've played him like a fiddle. Russia played the long game in the cold war and won.



  • #11989
    ronjo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭ronjo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123215058#Comment_123215058

    Exactly…. he probably never even realised he was an asset



  • #11990
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,720 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123215056#Comment_123215056

    It won't happen because it can't happen. Anyone in progressive politics of any kind is someone who fundamentally advocates for change. That means challenging the status quo and explaining why the cost, time and effort is worth it. The defenders of the status quo meanwhile have the defenders' advantage and masses of money to spend on their cause.

    Take climate change for instance. The deniers have simplicity on their side. You don't have to do anything and why should you have to pay the cost for some latte-supping liberal's white elephant net zero project? Trans people? Men are men, women are women. It's that simple. Racism? It's out of control wokery. Take all that sophistry and turbocharge it with Koch and Murdoch money and you get the USA.

    Fighting those odds is incredibly difficult and the Democrats' base is simply too broad to be coherent and effective where it counts, the ballot box. The left won't vote for the centre because it demands ideological perfect. The centre dislikes the left because the left is unfit to actually wield power. Meanwhile, the right is happy to tolerate the far right because they all think that anti-racist activism has gone too far and that there are too many Muslims.

    Also, have you seen the Democratic party? How is anyone supposed to be enthused about these venal, corrupt clowns? They're their own worst enemy.

    There are reasons that people support Trump. A key one is that he makes everything incredibly simple. For example, the relative decline in American power is due to the economic advances in places like China, India and Latin America but that's all rather complicated so Trump's narrative of Obama and others screwing America becomes much more powerful as a result. By the time an analyst debunks Trump's narrative, he's on about people eating dogs or something else.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #11991
    ronjo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭ronjo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123215097#Comment_123215097

    Also, have you seen the Democratic party? How is anyone supposed to be enthused about these venal, corrupt clowns? They're their own worst enemy.

    I am no saying you are wrong here but who exactly are you referring to?



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  • #11992
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,720 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123215119#Comment_123215119

    Eric Adams.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #11993
    ronjo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭ronjo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123215154#Comment_123215154

    THats one alright but the DOJ opened investigation into him last year didnt they?

    Who else?



  • #11994
    Oscar_Madison
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,406 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123215097#Comment_123215097

    The hope then if not a strong leader to counter Trump , is a completely wrecked economy - however for that to happen the world will suffer too - America won’t tank without Europe being impacted - and if overall the economy is “ok” I don’t see the Dems getting back next time



  • #11995
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,720 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123215195#Comment_123215195

    It's enough, no? Have the Democrats denounced him?

    Honestly, I appreciate that any sort of progressive change means engaging with the current system but the Demorats have done nothing to make it more democratic. They seem content to just steady the ship knowing that they need only be slightly less terrible than the Republicans.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #11996
    .Donegal.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,839 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    So with everything going on the world, trumps team found the time at the Munich conference to lobby the Romanians to release rapists and sex traffickers wanted in 3 different countries just because they praised turnip. The levels of scummery are endless.



  • #11997
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,240 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214074#Comment_123214074

    I'm glad you saw the light eventually, but what took you so long?

    He's not exactly snuck in under the radar.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #11998
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214074#Comment_123214074

    its beyond me how people calling themselves Irish patriots could cheer on such a man if we end up in recession over him.

    The reason is quite simple

    These people are f*cking morons



  • #11999
    bluedex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 407 ✭✭bluedex


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214234#Comment_123214234

    Eh… I couldn't believe this Trump Gaza AI video was real, or produced by Trump!! I checked news channels online.

    The whole thing is so surreal

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • #12000
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,240 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214168#Comment_123214168

    Doubling down on appeasing a madman, while also screwing ourselves in our long term environmental goals is the diametrically opposite of what we should be doing.

    When someone you thought you could rely on starts to openly slander you and threaten you and make unreasonable demands of you and show you in no uncertain terms that they are now your foe.

    Begging them to change their mind is the absolutely worst thing you could possibly do.

    1. It won't work
    2. They'll take it as a sign of weakness and use it against you

    Ireland on our own are almost powerless. But we are not on our own. We are in one of the worlds most powerful trading and economic blocs, and the way we overcome this bully, is to act in solidarity with our faithful partners and to build resilience and independence so that we can stand together without relying on those who have proven they can not be relied upon.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • #12001
    Oscar_Madison
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,406 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Trump uses extremes when negotiating - he likes highlighting the worst possible scenario - it’s a well known negotiation tactic and yes it does scare the bejazuz out of you - but if it does anything positive at all, it focuses minds and makes the other side take America seriously.

    Demanding unrealistic outcomes is a way of ensuring you negotiate from a strong position and end up with what you actually want in the first place. It’s not commonly used in normal business negotiation where long term relationships are important but in once off deals where the long term relationship isn’t an issue it’s certainly used - Trump is looking short term for the moment - he might move back to relationship based negotiation eventually when he sees the need for it

    I’m hoping that be it Gaza Europe or Ukraine - that this is the way it will actually go.



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