Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

CalmaftertheGav · 27-02-2025 09:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214304#Comment_123214304

I was referring to France's 2018/2019 u20s. World Champions both times and were supposed to dominate World Rugby…it's been 5 years since we were told this and I'm still waiting…

And yes, just look at France's results and performances…it's been a clear downward trend since 2022, a win over NZL last autumn has papered over ALOT of cracks that have been there since the RWC.

CalmaftertheGav · 27-02-2025 09:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214328#Comment_123214328

He is nailed on; it's a pointless discussion.

I have a great reason, he's the FB in the NH. Anyone who was in any doubt just watch the Scotland v Ireland game from a few weeks ago.

Like I said in a previous post, if Kinghorn is selected it's almost certain that it's WITH Keenan rather than INSTEAD of Keenan as none of the RWC options are on the same level for me.

pickarooney · 27-02-2025 09:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214449#Comment_123214449

OK, if you don't want to discuss it, don't discuss it. Not sure of the point of responding just to say you don't want to respond.

Former Former Former · 27-02-2025 09:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214328#Comment_123214328

Two years ago, I’d have said Keenan was nailed on, now I’d rate him as “probable”. Kinghorn, M Smith could run him close.

I don’t think anyone is in Lowe’s class, especially if Feyi Waboso is still out.

Ben Bailey · 27-02-2025 10:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214328#Comment_123214328

Yeah, I'd be interested in hearing why people declare him to be 'nailed on'. Arguably, his prominence derives mainly from playing with the best team in the 6N. Also arguably, Kinghorn's prominence derives mainly from his playing with the best team in European club rugby. For me, Keenan's form at Leinster + Ireland > Kinghorn for Toulouse + Scotland. But if I could have both in the same 15, I'd be tempted.

Paul Smeenus · 27-02-2025 10:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214304#Comment_123214304

I realise it would never even occur to you but there's also some Ulster players doing pretty well. One was a development player with the senior squad a few weeks ago.

All_in_Flynn · 27-02-2025 10:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214519#Comment_123214519

Smith? At fullback? Whatever about Kinghorn being a possible challenger but what has Smith done to even be in the conversation at fullback?

CalmaftertheGav · 27-02-2025 10:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214487#Comment_123214487

I don't know what there is to discuss, he's the best FB under the high ball, best at covering the backfield and overall, just the most reliable player.

All I said is he's a nailed-on STARTER…not he's the nailed on 15! One way or the other he's getting in, its just a case of what jersey he wears and who partners him and Lowe in the back three.

Like I said, the 14 jersey options aren't that great compared to Kinghorn and Keenan so the odds are both of them are starting at this point.

Quin_Dub · 27-02-2025 10:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214519#Comment_123214519

Whatever about the possibility of Marcus Smith being in contention for the 10 shirt , he is absolutely not in the running for the starting 15 jersey. If Furbank was fit, Smith wouldn't be starting at 15 for England.

Right now , the shirt is between Keenan and Kinghorn and I would say that if Keenan has a good day next week vs. France that probably moves him ahead.

Kinghorn was poor vs. England last week.

Former Former Former · 27-02-2025 10:53AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214722#Comment_123214722

Kinghorn was muck against England, but Keenan was dropped/rotated against Wales…

CalmaftertheGav · 27-02-2025 11:06AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214722#Comment_123214722

He wasnt much better versus Ireland either. The British media love him though because he plays for Toulouse…

Quin_Dub · 27-02-2025 11:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214746#Comment_123214746

I don't think Keenan was dropped tbf , but given that he didn't play against Wales he needs a good showing against France to re-establish his advantage over Kinghorn.

P.Walnuts · 27-02-2025 11:59AM

POM, Healy and Murray annouce international retirement after 6N.

Edit : POM and Healy retire altogether, Murray going abroad.

P.Walnuts · 27-02-2025 12:00PM

Going by the video you'd expect them all to be involved against France

HanShotFirst · 27-02-2025 12:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214278#Comment_123214278

No offence taken. I'm skeptical myself because of the FFR-Top14 conflicts. There is no denying there are some special players from that U-20 group.

Somebody went down a rabbit hole with my comment that Ireland are old in comparison to France.

That's just an analytical truth!

Just like why Ireland are going through a purple patch. Built on the foundations of Joe Schmidt's team and the non-conflicts between IRFU-Provinces.

And again to be clear -Purple Patch- is 2023-2025 team. Almost perfect blend of experience and youth. Almost!

It wont be like this forever though.

It simply cant. Park, POM, Murray, Lowe, Furlong, Beahlham, Bundee, Beirne…

Forget Le Crunch. Batáille Bearna Bhaoil!

sydthebeat · 27-02-2025 12:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214969#Comment_123214969

we're going to beat france now !!!!!!!

Podge_irl · 27-02-2025 12:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214991#Comment_123214991

I objected to your claim that the team was predominantly built under Schmidt because it isn't! The literal spine of the team all broke through under Farrell.

The Ireland U20s team won Grand Slams in 2022 and 2023. It takes a bit longer to break into a successful team than a flailing one. It's not a big deal.

theVersatile · 27-02-2025 12:17PM

The timing of that announcement feels very intentional, similar to CJ announcing his retirement before the England game a few years ago.

All setting up for a massive emotional response against a pumped up French team.

Game on!!!

HanShotFirst · 27-02-2025 12:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123215008#Comment_123215008

I didn't say predominately. I said Allot.

I subsequently gave you another example.

Heres another example. There was 14 in the 23 on Sat that was in Joe Schmidt's side.

You dont have to respect what I post, but don't misquote me.

HanShotFirst · 27-02-2025 12:26PM

Hold on! I just realised that you moderate this place. Goodbye

Tommybojangles · 27-02-2025 12:31PM

That made me a bit more emotional than I though it would. 3 All Timers. No obvious replasement for Murray or Healy imo and 2 six nations for someone to claim it with Casey and Boyle currently in the lead

AbusesToilets · 27-02-2025 12:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214576#Comment_123214576

His defensive positioning is generally superb, he's not caught out in kicking duels the way Ramos for example, often is. He is a phenomenal tackler, maybe the best I've seen since Halfpenny. He is very good coming into the line as a distributor, with a lovely movement before catching the ball and a very good pass. See Lowe's try vs NZ in the Aviva a few years back for an example. He's rapid quick, and possibly the fittest player around, going off of reported tests. He has a very good kicking game, both in terms of accuracy and distance.

He's basically the perfect blend of Kearney and Halfpenny, with a splash of Geordan Murphy's attacking prowess. You couldn't make a better FB in the lab. There are a couple of lads who I would say are better in attack (Barrett, Jordan, Willemse, Barre perhaps), but who aren't at his overall level.

CalmaftertheGav · 27-02-2025 12:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214991#Comment_123214991

There are potentially special players in that group…key word…potentially…they need to actually show that potential on the field first before we talk about them "dominating" at test level. Players like LBB for instance obviously are amazing but the rest while good still have a long way to go still.

But look at Ireland's results and look at Frances…that should tell you who's been getting their selection right. There is no coincidence that SA and Ireland are the two best teams in the world…they have the best balance of experience and quality…the saying "you don't win anything with kids" isn't a saying for nothing!

It won't be but the point is, Ireland have always done a good job at replacing an old outgoing player and I suspect that will be the case with the majority of players you mentioned…no better example than the 10 jersey.

CalmaftertheGav · 27-02-2025 12:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123215008#Comment_123215008

Your last point is exactly my point. Just because a team is slightly older than the rest that doesn't mean they lack young players coming through, it just means they are slower to bring them through.

KaneToad · 27-02-2025 12:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214969#Comment_123214969

All brilliant servants to national team. Current Healy and O'Mahony won't be missed. But current Murray will be missed. He's still the 2nd best SH in Ireland.

awec · 27-02-2025 12:46PM

Healy and POM hanging up the boots is not much of a surprise.

I'm not wild about any of the alternatives to Murray right now, still think he's Ireland's second best 9.

Former Former Former · 27-02-2025 01:06PM

Three incredible players.

Each of them went through serious injuries, dips in form, and just kept coming back for more, and each of them saw off multiple pretenders to their spots. POM and Murray are (for me) playing as well right now as they have at any point in the last few years.

Healy has definitely slowed down but he added a reasonable ability to play TH and hooker to his repertoite in recent seasons.

Cliche alert; we might have guys to play in their positions but we won't replace them.

ionadnapóca · 27-02-2025 01:10PM

Well I suppose thats POM starting and Healy on the bench v France!

They'll leave a big void of leadership and nous.

Greats. Each and everyone of them will go down as Ireland greats.

Laochra Gaels!

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2025/02/27/omahony-healy-and-murray-to-call-time-on-decorated-ireland-careers/

Clegg · 27-02-2025 01:23PM

Doris and Conan are both training with Ireland. Hopefully bodes well for their inclusion against France. Don't like the look of that knee brace Doris has on though.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1895068287278493823?t=z0FiJ3veIVuWSfu_CTNkmg&s=09

Podge_irl · 27-02-2025 01:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123215079#Comment_123215079

I would argue Casey had already replaced Murray, albeit Murray might have pipped him to a bench spot with JGP available. As excellent as Murray has been this season, I think Casey has improved a lot and is deservedly ahead.

Boyle seems the frontrunner for replacing Healy alright, though I'd like him to be getting more gametime in big games in Leinster.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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