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Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 02/09/25*

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Comments

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    well if you hate what the country has become, you may be a tad alarmist. Ireland is nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be. I’m not going to restart the discussion of 2025 v 1995. But I stand by it. Ireland is a much better place today than it was at any time since independence. Except for maybe 2013-2018. Maybe.

    What’s happening here is a classic case of distraction:


    “The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”

    Noam Chomsky

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,266 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    You can't though. I've seen jobs in the west of Ireland that aren't unappealing but the cost of living isn't that far below London. The only way I can see to make Ireland more attractive for Irish expats is to deal with the housing crisis which no government wants to do because they'd lower the value of middle class property investments. House prices must always go up.

    The only way I ever see myself going back is when both my parents are dead and if my siblings agree to let me inherit the house they're in now. That's it and it requires a me being wealthy enough to fund my own retirement.

    Obviously, there are Irish people who do go back but the reasons are likely to be complicated and multifaceted. 25-year old me would have balked at trading in Brighton & Hove for rural Ireland. Late 30's me is tempted by the peace, quiet and lack of noise though my tinnitus will make up for the last one.

    It's just ridiculous and nobody wants to lift a finger. It's also leading towards demographic catastrophe. With my personal savings, I could buy cash in somewhere dynamic and exciting like Liverpool for less than somewhere like Roscommon or Mayo.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sorry aren't the last "wretched regime" essentially the current "wretched regime"?

    Or do you see some major difference between this government made primarily of FF and
    FG and the previous one made primarily of FF and FG?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    If they can get employment and contribute to society I’d have no problem with them staying.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Come on now think it through with me.

    Democratically elected government.

    Or

    Small violent localized protests.

    Which do you believe has more right to be considered to have the mandate of the people?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,473 ✭✭✭emo72


    It is worse Brian. At least in 1995 you could easily aspire to owning a home. And get on with raising a family, even at a young age. Now we have adults in there 30s living in boxrooms. With the possibility of living in something in their parents garden if they're lucky.

    It's definitely worse now. Please don't gaslight.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    That’s a very narrow view of what’s better.

    I’m not “gaslighting”, I’m expressing an opinion. I don’t appreciate that accusation at all.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,473 ✭✭✭emo72


    It's probably the most important metric. The right to access a home and start living your life. This generation is being mugged off. I seriously don't know why there isn't ructions over this. And every available building being used to bring in asylum seekers/ipas and our kids getting absolutely no help in finding homes. How the state is getting away with this is beyond my comprehension.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,266 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's not gaslighting, it's a difference of opinion. Ireland now is much safer, much richer and much better for women, LGBT people and non-white people than it has ever been. On the other hand, life is harder for young people than it was for their parents financially at that point in their lives.

    I'll take 2025 Ireland over 1995 Ireland any day.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    True, though I think housing is one of those things I mean by "making Ireland more attractive" — the problem of course being (as you say) that nothing radical is being done about it (and as a current first time buyer who has spent the past 2 years trying to get on the ladder and have been sale agreed for 7 months with no keys in hand yet, I'm acutely aware of the issue). A focus on providing and building more well-connected and modern residential apartment areas akin to what has been achieved at Grand Canal Dock and the Northside docks etc to house young and migrant professionals is something that is achievable in order to free up demand for house-shares etc. But that's a discussion for another thread.

    But anyway, we are both coming back to the same central conclusion however that there is a feature of inevitability to emigration in Ireland. It's a price we pay for, among other things, producing a pool of talent whose skills are transferable and in-demand across the world.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,321 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Have you attended any of the numerous anti ipas centre protests around the country and talked to these people you wish to label as violent and threatening individuals?



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    🤣

    Have you gone into an IPA Centre and talked to the individuals that some claim are being brought here by the government to replace Irish people?

    Also doesn't answer my question.

    Should a small number of violent threatening individuals trump the decisions of the elected government?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    So NAMA was setup for sh××s n giggles at the time. Just because Mrs O'reilly down the road bought an overpriced kitchen



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,321 ✭✭✭prunudo


    You obviously know nothing about Ipas centres if you think you can just rock up, walk in the gates/doors and start asking random questions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    A small number (as Robbie put it) does not reflect everyone. Many protestors were peaceful

    Anyway let’s see what comes from the legal action raised by mount street residents and business owners. Let’s see if they’re painted as far right and racist



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Literally no one is saying this. Not one poster.

    Anyway let’s see what comes from the legal action raised by mount street residents and business owners. Let’s see if they’re painted as far right and racist

    So you are attempting to create that narrative right now!



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cleary avoiding the question.

    Should a small number of violent threatening individuals trump the decisions of the elected government?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 919 ✭✭✭creeper1


    Mount street which suffered a lot with tent city in recent years is on course for to receive 700 IPAs.

    Resident association is not happy and has sent letters complaining to various politicians.

    Here Pat Kenny or perhaps the reporter really can see it as the cash grab that it is.

    https://youtu.be/DX_RCKjq2f4?si=hmwZL73uruHsuOoF



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    I’m not saying anyone did say that. I said ‘let’s see if’ and I wasn’t just talking about boards

    If you don’t think the mount street residents and businesses are racist why do you think working class communities who protested against the same thing are?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Well, I think it depends on the nature of the protest doesn't it?

    I watch quite a lot of the videos posted by "concerned citizens" and "citizen journalists" on various social media sites who hang around near places where IPAs are being accommodated or where protests are happen. Often they're just getting up into IPA's faces, abusing them, harassing them, shouting at them — playing the man and not the ball as it were — not so much protesting the issue but just straight-up intimidating and abusing the IPAs themselves.

    It's that kind of element where it's difficult not to suppose that there is some degree of racism, xenophobia and bigotry involved.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    Ok then excluding the small number (Robbie’s words) was anyone who went to a protest racist?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 637 ✭✭✭Ozvaldo


    Not many would agree with you I certainly wouldn't



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Here you go again trying to shape a false narrative!

    Where did I call working class communities racist?

    You wont answer this question because I haven't.

    You seem to have started out with the opinion you want to argue against then apply it to me then argue how's it a bad opinion.

    Your post is an example of a strawman.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    ok good so we’re in agreement that people attending the protests aren’t racist



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Floppybits




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    It is an important metric, but it doesn't cover everything.

    I am not starting this again - I won't be convinced that being able to buy a house counterbalanced all the other things that were worse then.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,321 ✭✭✭prunudo


    The protests and their numbers are not small in number, the pou arrive, irrespective of whether there are 'threatening individuals' there or not. People are annoyed at what is happening in their communities, stop trying to paint concerned local people as the problem. Time after time communites aren't being listened to. So I will repeat, if a policy requires the gardai and pou to force change into an area, then the policy is the problem.

    Post edited by prunudo on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭redunited


    Is it?

    I don't remember this type of thing happening before.

    Yousef Palani (23) murdered two men and seriously assaulted a third during a four-day spree of violence in Sligo town. Gardaí believe he would have continued to kill gay men if he had not been arrested.

    Palani tracked the men down using an LGBT dating app before stabbing them to death in their homes and mutilating their bodies.

    The attacks triggered a massive Garda manhunt with armed officers visiting the homes of gay men around the town as they tried to track down Palani. With the assistance of witnesses, including Anthony Burke, a local man who had survived Palani’s first attack, gardaí traced Palani to his home and arrested him.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/10/23/double-murderer-yousef-palani-jailed-for-life-for-attacks-on-gay-men-spurred-by-hostility-and-prejudice/



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,266 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'm pretty sure there's always been murder in Ireland.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭redunited


    Can you think of a time when two gay men were savagely murdered in this fashion?



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