Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

It actually happens all the time.

Players reach a natural decline, when they meet it varies from player to player but it happens to them all.
Some players adapt as they get older and find a new function inside a team (Giggs a prime example) or some players can't adapt and fall off a cliff once their bodies slow down (Hazard at Real is a good example, or Bale when he came back to the PL. Rooney at 30 was done).

Casemiro was unbelievable for us in his 1st season, he looked the best player on the pitch most weeks. But we didn't understand what we had. Instead of surrounding an ageing player with runners and younger players who could learn from him, we asked him to control the centre of the pitch on his own and we pushed the rest of the midfield high up the pitch but did not bring the defence up with it. There was a massive gap between our front line and our back line each week and no midfielder is going to solve that.

As there were large gaps, Casemiro ran himself into the ground and started getting red cards and producing poor performances.

Now at 33 it looks like his time at the top is done but that does not in any way take away from the fact that up until his 2nd season with us he was world class.

Go back and watch some of the Real Madrid games from the 2010s. A prime Casemiro is a dream midfielder for any club.

Positive news!

Was happy he came on temporarily, delighted he is permanent as he has a good knowledge of players.

The thing is, Casemiro has only just turned 33. It would've been considered old in 2005 but not so much in 2025. Lewandowski is 37, Modric is 39, Van Dijk is nearly 34 etc. He had quality on the ball in his first season, it wasn't just his physicality that stood out. But he's fallen off a cliff.

It's possible that Madrid had data that suggested he wasn't going to last much longer and we, like fools, paid 70m for him on a massive contract.

We really should have tried to offload him to Saudi after his first season when his stock was still high and Saudi were in for any big name that was willing to move.

How many of the best defensive midfielders have lasted into their even early 30s I've struggled to think of any in the past 20 years seems the one position that either takes the most out of players or they need to be at top top shape to compete.

Great result with Wolves losing tonight...think any talk of relegation is now well and truly finished

Casemiro is coming back into the team because there is nobody else available. He is clearly not in Amorim's plans but he has to be used now. The scathing criticism of him is a bit harsh given he is no way match fit. He had a great first season. Fred was a big help to him in terms of legs but obviously we can all see the deficiencies now. Especially playing in a midfield two with Bruno.

With regards to his wages I noted a point from Kieran Maguire on Rio's podcast yesterday that United player wages are 53% of turnover which is one of the lowest in the PL. It goes to show how much is being wasted and will continue to be wasted on paying for the Glazers investment. I hope we're not looking at another Leeds in the coming years in terms of the finances.

Apologies if this was already posted but I just saw an alarming comparison.

Amorim has the same number of league defeats as Neville had at Valencia over a similar sample size.

Amorim: Played 16, lost 8, won 4 and drew 3

Neville: Played 15, lost 8, won 3, drew 5

Also, 3 of our wins were very sketchy. We were absolutely dire v Fulham away, fortunate to play City at a very low ebb (and could've easily lost that game anyway) and were losing + outplayed for the majority of the game at home v bottom club Southampton. In the cups, we nearly drew at home v a very poor Rangers team and needed a last minute offside goal to knock Leicester out of the FA Cup at Old Trafford.

I mean, the Neville stint was so bad at Valencia even Neville jokes about how humiliatingly out of his depth he was. I'm sure he had squad issues too but you can't explain away such a dire run of form without addressing the fact that the manager has utterly failed to get a tune out of the vast majority of his existing players.

I think most people are concerned about Amorim's start, there's no denying it has been a very poor start.

I think most would also afford Amorim a bit more credit than Neville as a manager and that's probably why it wasn't posted. I'm not sure what kind of squad Neville had, but I think allowances are being made that Amorim doesn't have goals in his squad.

Stats can always be used to paint a picture / get a reaction. I could say that Klopp won 10 out of his first 21 matches when he took over Liverpool, and that Amorim has won 9 out of his first 22 matches at United, to try to give people / myself some hope.

Big difference between Amorim and Neville is that Amorim has a decent track rocord at Sporting whereas Neville had no management experience.

Most of the spending last summer hasn't even been paid for yet. How do you think we still owe 3-400 million in transfer fees? PSSR is not what is stopping us spending. Its cash flow, we have none and with falling revenues and growing debt, that's only going to get worse in the short term. Last premier league TV deal was lower that the previous one as well. No chmapions league revenue in the foreseeable. Where is the money coming from while we are still servicing massive debt and bloated contracts?

The are "looking" to build a brand new state of the art stadium - I am "looking" to buy a Ferrari. What they are actually looking at is having a viable stadium plan for financiers in place for when they emerge from the zombie state in 5 years if they are lucky, the debt which will fall straight back on the clubs balance sheet. The idea that they are going to just build a stadium is laughable. And the investment in the training ground was part of the equity stake.

You have also said I said "sell the stadium". Read what I wrote again. But just for clarity what I actually meant and what I think would be the best thing for the long term future of the club is that the holding company goes bust and that Football club and football assets get sold to a new owner, preferably with some level of MUST or similar fan group involvement but beggars cant be choosers, but unencumbered by the debt, the Glazer parasites and the Ineos vultures. And make no mistake, the Ineos business model has always been picking on the carcasses of businesses with value that are struggling.