Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

I view this differently - “negotiation” , especially between countries and for something so important and serious, shouldn’t be done this way.

It’s essentially a deal behind Ukraines back - this deal will likely fail - let’s see if America steps up - what I like seen this evening is Keith Hegseth getting grilled by European press - you could see he was on the back foot - even he doesn’t believe this is the right thing to do - they’re lying boll0x - they don’t see Ukraine as an equal partner - neither side sees Ukraine as relevant - don’t ever from here on rely on America to see the EUs back -they might and they may not.

Trump has conceded a sh1t load before “negotiations” have happened - the rest is window dressing .

I think you're projecting a lot there. I've seen people call for genocide of Russians, ethnic cleansing of Russians and dehumanise Russians seemingly on the basis of viewing Russia as an "entity", which they fundamentally dislike. And so they support any opposing nation or leadership.

I've not so much seen Sachs call for genocide or ethnic cleansing of anyone, or dehumanise anyone or express and deep dislike of any country. He is an American, and he is primarily concerned with US policy. Even more so as given his status in the US he seems to have the ability to pick up the phone and call people involved in making that policy. So if he focuses on US policy, that is perfectly explainable without a conspiracy theory. It is his country.

Sachs set out his view back on 8th February 2022 that Ukraine's sovereignty and independence was best protected by negotiation and Ukraine remaining neutral, outside of NATO. Of course, his call for negotiation was demonised. 3 years later with hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians dead and 4 oblasts annexed on top of Crimea and no NATO membership, it is provably the case that Sachs had the better idea of how to protect Ukraine.

Russia poisons people on foreign soil,

The USA destroyed a country called Libya and killed hundreds of thousands in Iraq. It has been sponsoring and arming genocidal mm maniacs in Israel.

Don't know what the rest is about. You think war is better than peace? I'm not volunteering to fight in Ukraine but my feeling is that if you believe so strongly in continuing the war, you should be fighting on the front line in Ukraine and not cheering young men to their graves in a stupid and unnecessary war

Do you really think a surrogacy mother in Ukraine gives a **** if corrupt Ukraine or corrupt Russia is in charge?

https://emerging-europe.com/analysis/commercial-surrogacy-presents-a-moral-dilemma-for-ukraines-baby-factories/

Be interesting to see how many pro Putin posters have actually lived in Putins Russia for any length of time….The saying was, if you are unhappy withn your own Country, go live in Russia for awhile….when you return home, you will be a very happy person….

Nice of them to involve the country that was invaded in the negotiations.

The active wording is negotiated settlement , meaning something that Ukraine agrees with, but not the shotgun wedding that seems to be on the cards presently. AKA Crimea so called Referendum.

I didn't mention the south Korean gear. It's the billions they've invested in Abrahms, F35s, Pariots etc. If they decided to preemptively attack Russia as they sensed a threat, Trump could make all that gear redundant on a whim.

Except for the fly in the ointment, Zelenski. They do not speak for him or for Ukrainians.

A shame diplomats did not do what they were supposed to do to solve problems. Plenty of opportunities, anyone remember Zelensky's peace summit in Switzerland where they never even invited Russia to it ?

Lavrov's thoughts.

There is nothing on the table right now. There is no deal to be discussed or dismissed. All we have is a load of Trumpian "concepts of a plan" from the man/men-behind-the-man who still haven't come up with a healthcare plan for their own nation, despite them telling us since 2017 that it was only two weeks away from being revealed.

I heard one of the American late night comedians recently describe Trump as a human Roomba - randomly pootling around sucking up whatever rubbish he comes across until he bumps into an obstacle; then he backs up, changes direction and pootles off again as if nothing happened. Over and over again, without ever really going anywhere.

With everything else that's going on in that administration, I'm quite convinced that Trump is nothing less than someone else's useful idiot, and is probably less involved in any conflict resolution plans than European. He was probably handed a phone and told to talk to Putin just to keep him busy, to make him feel important while more competent (not necessarily benevolent) individuals get on with crafting a more realistic proposal.

And on that score, for all its ills, the one superpower the EU has is being masterful negotiators. The British learnt that to their cost quite recently, and it was one of the points made repeatedly on this forum before they even got as far as triggering Article 50. So for all the sucking on the Kremlin teat demonstrate by Orban and Fico and their ilk, the EU is the expert in the room when it comes to this kind of thing, and there are enough MEPs with a working moral compass to put a workable solution on the table. That'll be a proposal Ukraine can agree to, because it'll be designed to be so … and I'm pretty sure it'll be a proposal that benefits the EU more than any other economic bloc.

Diplomats can't do much about terrorist attacking innocent people for no reason. putin and Trump can talk all they like but the EU and their member states and others have committed to continued support for Ukraine and its right to defend its internationally agreed borders so even with Trump at his side putin will need to offer something to Ukraine to make any cease fire palatable to them. Recently I see reports that their abilities to disarm putin's terrorist state have seen serious improvement:

https://united24media.com/latest-news/us-sanctions-and-ukrainian-drone-attacks-force-russia-to-scale-back-oil-production-5859

https://kyivindependent.com/russias-lipetsk-oblast-hit-by-massive-drone-raid-largest-steel-mill-reportedly-targeted/

Anyone else think that things are spiralling out of control. Trump has just announced meetings tomorrow in Munich between representatives from the US, Ukraine and Russia. If do it's bizarrely quick. European leaders must be in actual shock, not knowing what to do. For 3 years they refused to speak to Russian representatives and here we have the most powerful country in the world doing just that, completely ignoring Europe. Trump also said that he'd like to see Russia back in the G8.... difficult to keep up to date with developments. Every evening a Trump interview, every interview brings some new and dramatic

And how would he do that?

South Korea, Japan, the Philippines - I'd hazard a guess they might have more than the one ally in the region besides Taiwan. Not for long though, by the time Musk is done doing Putrid's bidding, the US likely won't have any allies left. He's even threatening tariffs against Australia, despite the US having a trade surplus.

Are all the Republican members of Congress and the Senate asleep? Can they not see the lighthouse and hear the waves crashing on the rocks?

He doesn't need to be warm or friendly to Canada and the EU. They're essentially dependent vassal states who have nowhere else to go economically or politically except the USA, on whatever terms the USA chooses to give them. The EU policymaking over the past 20-25 years has been objectively horrendous. The EU was initially sold as a way for European countries to achieve strategic autonomy, but ironically its become a means to bind Europe to the US as a satellite. Even now, while Trump has gone above their heads the EU "leadership" can only bleat sadly about transatlantic unity.

I saw an astute observation recently on this topic: The sheep will spend its entire life fearing the wolf. But it is eaten by the shepard.