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WFH is dead and buried. Right to WFH bill is pointless

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭itsacoolday


    You fail to remember it is the job of companies to remain profitable for their owners and shareholders, otherwise it is not sustainable. As regards their employees, it is not their job to " allow for families to have more children and reduce child care costs", as you put it, end of quote. Productivity of their employees is their number one concern, because in the competitive international marketplace their aim must be to be as profitable as possible, because if they do not have that aim their competitors will, and will put them out of business. Few businesses in the world would welcome an increased amount of children running around under their employees legs when they are working.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Thus far most of the RTO mandates in the high profile multinationals are a means to cull head counts. But it's backfired on them for variety of reasons.

    Companies and organisations (as a sweeping generalisation) don't really care about (invest in) their staff anymore. Hence they have problems with retention, and maintaining skillets. But they can't seem to join the dots.

    Don't really care about people commute where they live etc., until they can't get staff for the wages offered, which means they actually can't service parts of the business.

    This is reflected in how much work is now done by contractors and agency staff, some of whom are years and years in organisations. Also in cost overruns and projects failing.

    Nothing can protect Ireland from Trump we are clearly in his sights, it's only a question of when he remembers..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Hushed hybrid has been around for as long as I remember, decades. Usually under the term "local arrangement".

    It's can be gone in an instant though if local management changes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭itsacoolday


    He was not long remembering to call federal employees back to the office, saying "federal workers who log on from home are only working 10% of the time and are likely to have two jobs."

    Quote: ‘Nobody is gonna work from home. They are gonna be going out, playing tennis, playing golf’

    I think there was not a huge outcry, as many people know he has a point. Even those who watch tv, play tennis and golf while wfh know it is not sustainable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 559 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    Trump is just making noise, it’s already been pointed out that it’s not enforceable and unions have told workers to continue working from home.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭itsacoolday


    Only 26% of federal employees are unionized. The president and the agency heads have broad authority to fire non-union workers for cause - this could include defying a mandate to return to the office. Trump and the US government are of the opinion that federal workers should not be paid for "the COVID-era privilege" of telework. As someone close to Trump said "Requiring federal employees to come to the office five days a week would result in a wave of voluntary terminations that we welcome." The people most likely to complain and threaten to leave are the lazy ones who play golf or tennis when they are supposed to be working. The federal employees with second jobs may just go to the second jobs.

    I wish someone here would call out the people who have second jobs while wfh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    You cant create a law that says private companies must allow staff to WFH 2 days per week and not expect those companies to up and leave the country.

    The employer pays you, not the govt.

    If the company wants you in the office and thats what is in your contract, then thats what you do; the exact same as all the generations before us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The Govt has indicated with its legislation its not doing anything for remote workers. If anything they are heading for battle with the unions over nothing.

    The US Companies will move not because of WFH which they mostly have already, but because of punitive measures by Trump, to do with Tax. He wants his cut of their profits.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    How about Coffee Badging.

    Listen, if you only know someone's working by where they are. Then thats an admission you don't have productivity and output metrics. Because if you did you probably don't care where they are, because you know they are working. Those metrics will probably show who ever is taking the roll doesn't actually do much themselves. Which is probably why they don't have metrics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 559 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    Can you not? European employment law is very strong compared to what US based empolyers are used to. Arguably many of the laws they have to abide by are more troublesome for them than mandating 2 days WFH.

    In reality there is a small handful of multinationals making a lot of noise about forced RTO - the majority of multinationals are continuing with varying degrees of hybrid and fully remote in many cases also.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 939 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    There's not much minding in a 10 year old unless his child has special needs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Because they choose to do so, not because Europran politics mandates them to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    I wish someone here would call out the people who have second jobs while wfh.

    Fire ahead and provide us with the evidence of this statement my good man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭itsacoolday


    And what about his or her 6 and 8 year old siblings? Why do creches charge so much if it is so easy? Trump is right to want to get everyone back to the office, because, as he says, federal employees wfh only work 10% of the time etc. And, as he says, many double job.

    Stop the double jobbing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,491 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Never, ever, ever cite a claim made by Donald Trump in support of an argument that you are advancing. This gives the strong impresion that you have no credible evidence to support your argument — if you did, you would hardly be citing the likes of Trump. And if yoru argument has no credible evidence to support it, you probably don't want to draw attention to that fact.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,826 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    WFH will not drive a single company out of Ireland because it is just not that important and in fact most US MNCs are far more accommodating than European ones when it comes to strange work practices. Labour law in Ireland is a bit complex in a few areas, but in general it is a lot more relaxed that in other parts of Europe. I have worked on several such investment decisions over the past 30 years and I can recall a single case where labour law was an issue, beyond a concern about getting good people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭itsacoolday


    You would be surprised. I am quite familiar, through a relation who works there, of a US multinational who had Irish people here wfh 4 years ago, but when the multinational saw that they could get other people in the far east who would do the same work more efficiently, they quietly let go a whole section of people in Ireland. Was cheaper just to get rid of them.

    Trump has recalled US federal employees back to the office. Many if not most of the managers and shareholders in the US are Trump supporters. No big outcry in the States because everyone knows many if not most Federal employees there were not productive at home. Many double jobbing, playing golf and tennis, watching tv etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 559 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    You have gone from quoting trump and musk to the completely false and regularly refuted myth “wfh will mean your job will move abroad”.

    We are well past the bottom of the barrel and into a few feet of clay by now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭itsacoolday


    A good friend of mine lost her job in a US multinational because the work she and her colleagues were doing wfh was transfered abroad. So not a myth for her and her colleagues.

    Ignore Trump and the US government if you want, no skin off my nose. However he has ordered all Federal employees back to the office saying they were only working 10% of the time while wfh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    He also told people to drink bleach to cure COVID, maybe don't take everything that clown says seriously.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,346 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    That would be fine if my wage covered that cost specifically stated but since it does not no. That be like me been paid more if I am farther away or drive a car and someone else less as they do not have a car or work closer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭itsacoolday


    Or some would say employees who look after a few toddlers or kids at home while wfh should take a pay cut to reflect the savings they make on childcare, to maintain cohesion amongst other employees who work in the office?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Give us the evidence of these employees that aren't your made up friend looking after 4 kids please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭gaming_needs90


    This return to office wave really seems to be an own goal. I work for a deep tech company and mainly work with India and West US colleages. That means that you catch people first thing in the morning and after 4pm our time. What is the actual point of myself being in the office? Our company is now going to 4 days in the office. The thing is the vast majority of our teams also work with India/west-US teams all day, every day. This is all from corporate in the US but the Irish boys have to follow. I had the foresight to negotiate a full remote contract when I joined which protects myself, but for how long? Like the frog in a boiling pot of water. Its not much good if I try to move company. I have been remote working since around March 2020. At first the novelty was great but I just fell into the routine very fast. I genuinely work more being at home. If I went into the office you can be sure I will not be taking calls at 7pm from the Americans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭itsacoolday


    Do you seriously think there are not people working from home who are not also looking after toddlers and / or kids?

    I think Trump and the US govt went a bit overboard saying people who wfh only work 10 per cent of the time. Some might only work 10% of the time but not all. He is right though to want to cut down the double jobbing etc. It is not sustainable.

    Because Trump has ordered his Federal employees back to the office, it just shows that everyone knows what is going on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    So no actual evidence, just your opinions, thanks.

    Again can you please provide a source for your double jobbing statement?

    Not a US Trump said this source, a valid source that show's people are double jobbing while WFH in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,535 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    If someone is using "because Trump" as their argument, there's a fair chance they're pulling your leg.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭itsacoolday


    Would you define someone minding toddlers or kids at home as double jobbing?

    We know Trump said said many of his Federal employees were playing tennis and golf while wfh. No big public outcry as everyone knows it goes on. Come on, people are not stupid.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    So again no source other than "Trump said".

    Have a cool day and go back under the bridge where you live.



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