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Israel/Palestine Thread

1…13431344134613481349…1948

Comments

  • #40352
    Miniegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123163984#Comment_123163984

    Welcome back. Do you condemn the below? I answered yours...

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123162495#Comment_123162495


  • #40353
    Miniegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164069#Comment_123164069

    I'll ask again, is the below how you are arguing this works??

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123162079#Comment_123162079


  • #40354
    Spudmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164179#Comment_123164179

    This lad inhabits a world where if someone reneges on a deal, the other person is in the wrong…..

    Mind-blown….



  • #40355
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123163984#Comment_123163984

    Your refusal to answer basic questions about Israeli violence does not back up your assertion. You want an end to 'war' on Israeli terms, nothing else.



  • #40356
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123163984#Comment_123163984

    You really believe that when all the hostages are released that Israel will stop the killing?

    God bless your naive cotton socks.



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  • #40357
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164218#Comment_123164218

    He/She does not care one bit about that



  • #40358
    Miniegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164192#Comment_123164192

    I've no clue what world he/she inhabits - the last few posts are just vacuous sound bites, and when prodded a little bit on the logic behind them, he/she doesn't seem willing to explain.

    Instead, the obligatory "do you support Hamas"?



  • #40359
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123162495#Comment_123162495

    Sorry I may have missed it but you mentioned weapons of mass destruction. Did Israel actually use WMDs in Gaza?



  • #40360
    Miniegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164672#Comment_123164672

    Well - Gaza is completely flattened. What would you consider this?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/10/world/middleeast/israel-strike-mawasi-bombs.html



  • #40361
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,907 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164587#Comment_123164587

    It's an extremely disingenuous posting style but you get used to it.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



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  • #40362
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164672#Comment_123164672

    Whilst not falling under the definition of a WMD, the 2000lb bombs Israel have used in densely populated areas are designed to effect mass destruction.

    You may not have seen any but I can assure you that images of Gaza, which is now mostly rubble, clearly shows this.



  • #40363
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164913#Comment_123164913

    but but there was a Hamas member in that civilian flat complex



  • #40364
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    The continuing support for Israel in their Genocidal ambitions is astonishing. In this day and age, I find it so hard to understand how anyone can justify the wholesale murder of civilians in the many tens of thousands and the utter destruction of buildings and infrastructure.

    Israel even destroyed solar panels attached to a water desalination plant to deny the Palestinians access to clean, safe water. But as seen multiple times here, actions such as that are dismissed because "there were Hamas combatants hiding there" and so on. Any counter argument is met with "you're a Hamas supporter" or "You're antisemitic".

    There is never any evidence given - just dismissal.

    The lack of clear evidence in support of Israel seems not to matter one jot. But in any normal debate or discussion, statements of fact are backed up with evidence.

    And it's very noticeable that when challenged by asking questions, the discussion just evaporates. Presumably because there is no counter argument - other than name-calling.



  • #40365
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164987#Comment_123164987

    It is the way of Israeli apologists and unfortunately that same approach is now prevalent in other areas



  • #40366
    Miniegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164913#Comment_123164913

    I don't believe there is a complete definition for a WMD, though open to be proven wrong. It doesn't have to be nuclear, biological, chemical etc to be classified a WMD, though that is the most common reference when it is mentioned.

    These 2000 pound bombs have a 300m+ kill radius, and designed for dropping on buildings etc.

    In the article I linked, 8 of them were dropped, mostly on tented refugee camps - they don't know how many casualties there were because so many civilians were completely vaporised.

    Anyway, the point stands, a city of 2 million people has been completely destroyed, and an overwhelming % of casualties have been civilian.



  • #40367
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123165022#Comment_123165022

    The UN definition is nuclear, chemical or biological weapons or weapons producing the same devastation as NBC weapons. It also includes weapons not yet "invented" that are equally destructive.

    Regardless, 2000lb bombs used in civilian areas is utterly abhorrent.

    Imagine if one were to fall in the middle of Tel Aviv.



  • #40368
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 333 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Is there no end to the depts of depravity these monsters and their supporters can stoop to?



  • #40369
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123165157#Comment_123165157

    Apparently not and the justifications for it are astonishing.

    But there is the hope that the ICC will eventually host Gallant and Netanyahu in The Hague and if found guilty, sentence them to a long time of incarceration.

    Also, the ICJ will decide on the case of the Israeli Genocide. If found guilty of that, well, it will at least be interesting.



  • #40370
    Miniegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123165132#Comment_123165132

    Yes, you are correct with UN, but it's not a universal term.

    The FBI / US dept homeland defence have broader definitions, though they probably apply standards differently as they would looking after attacks on US soil.

    Anyway, don't mean to derail anymore....



  • #40371
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,531 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164987#Comment_123164987

    I do recall one of them drawing the line at the IDF shooting sheep so there is that. Women and children, who cares? 🤷‍♂️



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  • #40372
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    More details what Israel intends to do should hostages not be released on Saturday (owing to their breaches of the cease-fire agreement).

    Spoiler alert - they're going to carry on with their Genocide:

    BBC:

    The far-right Israeli finance minister Bezalel Smotrich - who has threatened to leave Netanyahu's coalition if there is not a return to fighting at the end of the six-week ceasefire deal - went further still.

    On social media, he proposed telling Hamas to release all the hostages or else have "the gates of hell" opened, with no fuel, water or humanitarian aid entering Gaza.

    He said there should be "only fire and brimstone" from Israeli warplanes and tanks, with the strip completely occupied and its population expelled.

    "We have all the international backing for this matter," he stated.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd7d9p0j5qeo


  • #40373
    Gerry T
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123162402#Comment_123162402

    Israel said they would stop shooting/killing

    Hamas the terrorists said they would then release the hostages

    Israel broke the agreement by shooting and killing

    What should Hamas do ?? Hold onto the hostages and try ask Israel to honour the agreement and reset a date for hostage release.

    Its obvious to see the ball is firmly in Israels court, why do you think the next move should be by Hamas ?

    For clarity I do not support Hamas in anything they do, killing, taking hostages, not allowing Palestinians a vote etc… But if the deal was, if you stop shooting we release hostages, then Hamas are duty bound not to release hostages. The ball is in Israel corner.



  • #40374
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 333 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123165219#Comment_123165219

    Oops, my apologies , I should have been clear, when I say monsters I mean the savages that are hamas. All those other lies are just a distraction, reminds me of the WMD lies we were all told before the US and UK lead invasion of Iraq in 2003, there's always a distraction that a plausible amount of people believe, it helps prolong the evil for people to gain from.



  • #40375
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123165586#Comment_123165586

    what lies?



  • #40376
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123165443#Comment_123165443

    The hostages should never have been taken, failing that, they should have been released the next day.

    What the current situation is showing is that Hamas have less regard for ordinary Palestinian civilians than the IDF. That is astonishing, but even more astonishing is that some people like yourself have actually suggested that Hamas should keep holding on to hostages!! It seems like you support war crimes.



  • #40377
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164218#Comment_123164218

    You really believe that Hamas should continue to keep the hostages, prolonging further their war crimes?



  • #40378
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,004 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123165443#Comment_123165443

    You don't support Hamas, yet you feel they are duty bound to hold on to hostages. For myself I find that a contradiction. I hope they release the hostages as planned and avert what could become a humanitarian disaster again. Hamas have very limited support outside gaza, physically at least, and are going to do their usual hiding among the innocents disappearing act if hostilities resume. Placing their fellow Gazans in great danger once again.

    For me the right thing for them to do is uphold their end of the bargain and hold Israel to account for their violations internationally, not to invite the slaughter of more innocents in a war they can't win as things stand. If they are willing to fight and die for their cause, then front up and fight, but don't go hiding among the women, children and innocent people of your country.



  • #40379
    Miniegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123166049#Comment_123166049

    Blanch, do you really think you are in a position to keep up this charade of asking people you disagree with if they support warcrimes, when you hypocritically (and heartlessly) refuse to condemn the below? Im actually a bit surprised, given I bothered my hole replying to your meritless question, that you are dodging it and keeping at the same shtick.

    Are you afraid to condemn this for some reason, or do you agree with these action?

    Now - more to the point - as I have not once seen you criticize the party in this conflict who have been directly responsible for 95% of the deaths.

    Do you condemn Israel for using weapons of mass destruction against civilian populations, it politicians for using language of mass bloodshed and dehumanisation of Palestinians, for bombing schools and hospitals, for withholding food and water, destroying farmland, overwhelmingly killing women and children, and for formulating a plan to remove a people from a land - whose lineage goes back thousands of years - in order to ethnically cleanse them from the region?



  • #40380
    Gerry T
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123166043#Comment_123166043

    Should israel release its hostages ?

    Should israel do what it agreed, killing innocent people so the hostages are released ?



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  • #40381
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123166069#Comment_123166069

    I explained the difference months and months ago.

    There is no defence to the accusation of war crimes against Hamas (unless you argue that the kidnapping of hostages did not happen and they went willingly, which I think even you wouldn't stoop that low to). As a non-State actor, the taking of hostages is a warcrime and I don't think there is anyone who is suggesting otherwise, but correct me if I am wrong, but there is no debate on that issue. The only issue is whether some people actually support the continuation of the war crimes by Hamas, and unfortunately, it seems that there are a few.

    For Israel, there are defences available to the accusations, whether that be warnings provided or legitimate acts of self-defence etc. Whether or not I believe that those defences stand up to scrutiny is a different point, but the mere fact of the defences being available means that it is up to a truly independent court in a hearing to decide on those points (and not me). I believe that at least some of the Israeli actions (as opposed to all of the Hamas actions) will be found to be war crimes, whether that is as directed by the top army brass or as a result of wildcat action in the field remains to be found by the court. I could be wrong, and no actions of Israel will be found to be war crimes and that the rationale of self-defence will prevail. As for the usage of WMDs, or of genocide, I think that Israeli actions fall short of the legal definitions. However, ultimately, that is for a court to decide. All of that is legally to be determined, and my views, as stated on the legal points, say nothing on what I believe to be morally right or wrong.

    War is a terrible thing, is the only thing I will say.



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