Six Nations 2025

Krazy gang · 12-02-2025 06:42PM

Wales should have a Jones or a Jenkins coaching them. No idea who or if he'd be any good but it would sound good and would align with the culture of Welsh rugby!!

visatorro · 12-02-2025 06:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123163564#Comment_123163564

thought i seen somewhere the club game was still very well attended in wales. higher crowds than some of the regions games. thats not saying the standard is very good thou

Quin_Dub · 12-02-2025 06:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123163998#Comment_123163998

Exactly - They are more interested in watching Neath or whoever playing in the Welsh version of the AIL than they are going to watch the Ospreys or the Dragons.

Ireland were incredibly lucky to have a ready made set of teams to go Professional with , that already had a fan base with rivalries and history etc.

The "forced" creations in Wales and to a lesser extent in Scotland have really struggled to really get supporter buy-in

sydthebeat · 12-02-2025 06:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123163685#Comment_123163685

Can't blame gatland for the Welsh player development pathways. His remit would have been making the mens seniors successful and by all measures he succeeded in that in his first stint.

pickarooney · 12-02-2025 07:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123162186#Comment_123162186

I think it's great. I found it utterly ridiculous that a team that failed to score was rewarded with a 5m scrum while the team that successfully defended their line get punished.

Being given the ball back with 40m of space to run at or drop a goal is more than what a team deserves for failing to put the ball down.

VinLieger · 12-02-2025 07:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164056#Comment_123164056

I disagree he was in charge for 12 years in his first stint, do you think Schmidt wasn't involved in player development? I know for a fact Farrell definitely is and yes thats the difference between the IRFU and WRU, but it started in 2013 when the IRFU tripled its player development spending yet Gatland still paid no attention to the looming problem. And while yes its not entirely his fault the fact he didn't realise what was happening even by the end of that run and try to push for change is absolutely on him. So either he was ignorant of it or just didn't care what state he was leaving the future of a team he had spent 12 years building to be the best in its history. Neither is a good look.

CMOTDibbler · 12-02-2025 09:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164306#Comment_123164306

To be fair, we don't know if Gatland pushed for development or not. We can't judge by outcome, because he was answerable to the WRU and the WRU is not exactly known for forward thinking.

sydthebeat · 12-02-2025 09:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164306#Comment_123164306

disagree all you want, elite player development and player pathways was NOT the remit of the mens senior head coach to the degree you claim gatland was "asleep at the wheel". It wasnt gatlands responsibility to manage, and in fact, in most unions its not the responsibility of the mens head coach to manage the elite player pathways.

when he took over in 2007 mostyn richards was head of elite player development in the WRU, and can claim to be the real reason for that golden generation which brought wales those slams in 08 and 12.

in fact, in wales the WRU created a specific "elite performance team" in 2008 whos remit it was to drive standards OUTSIDE of the national squad to produce players capable of selection for the national squad. Huw Wiltshire was the first lead "National Performance manager" of this team. This team also included positions such as National Development Manager and National Academy Manager. This team existed under the watch of the WRU Head of rugby, originally Joe Lydon from 2008, and then Josh Lewsey after him, up to 2016.

Gatland was never a Director of rugby type manager. In his one role as DOR (with the chiefs in 2019) was a disaster with him losing all 8 games in SR Aoeteroa. He is an exceptional head coach, but never a pathway developer.

ersatz · 12-02-2025 11:41PM

Irish fans will have a different perspective on this because we are used to a joined up system that the mens senior coach is integral to. It seems obvious because it's there but it's only there because of choices that were made in Ireland (and much later in Italy), but the same system was not instituted in Wales. Much as we can be frustrated by the Leinster delta in player production the fact is that there is a pipeline of development that the union basically manages from top to bottom and its been paying off for a decade or more. Kidney/EOS era Ireland had a group of generational players that the union built something on while Wales had a similar generation that Gatland got more out of but that the union sat back on. They've a long way to go.

Pete_Cavan · 13-02-2025 07:06AM

Wales might be better off appointing a rookie coach but a "legend" type figure, someone who's ingrained in Welsh rugby and at least talks the talk media-wise. Head coach experience would be well down my list of requirements. Stephen Jones would be ideal.

The next coach isn't going to have the player resources to be successful anyway, throwing money at a high profile coach could just be a waste of money. Focus investment behind the scenes and get good people in place on the development side. Their current players were under invested in, they can't allow that happen to the next generation. The next coach isn't going to have them in top half of 6N in any case, they need to be looking beyond.

Ben Bailey · 13-02-2025 11:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123165035#Comment_123165035

Great post

typhoony · 13-02-2025 12:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123165545#Comment_123165545

It may be a bit controversial but the Irish System only works because the Leinster juggernaut leads the way. I'm not comparing the other 3 provinces to the Welsh regions however it is fair to say that the other 3 provinces are struggling to develop international players. Ulster had no representatives in the last Ireland team that played against Scotland and Connacht had 3 imports that you can't say are homegrown. Munster with their heritage just haven't provided enough players either that are of a high enough standard. I'm not talking about players involved in the squad as there plenty of them from all 3 provinces without any of them staking a claim.

sydthebeat · 13-02-2025 01:14PM

so gareth Anscombe and max llewllyen called back into the welsh squad, and rob Howley given the boot.

https://bsky.app/profile/thewelshrugbyunion.bsky.social/post/3li2o6z5ctc2p

wales getting their sh!t together at the wrong time for us.

CMOTDibbler · 13-02-2025 01:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167134#Comment_123167134

Howley hasn't been given the boot though. Just no longer involved with the squad. Probably WRU trying to find the cheapest way of getting rid of him.

Podge_irl · 13-02-2025 01:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167134#Comment_123167134

Ah they've no time to get themselves sorted. They're still years away from it most likely. Don't think it matters to us at all.

Clegg · 13-02-2025 01:55PM

I don't expect Ireland to lose or for the game to even be particularly close. Top level rugby isn't like football where a change in manager can give an immediate boost and the side goes on a winning run. Wales don't have the forwards to really threaten.

They've called up better players and will look more competent in attack and will presumably defend better. Those last few games under Gatland were particularly bad in terms of defensive quality.

A bonus point win would be fantastic, but a 30 point dribbling may not be on the cards.

sydthebeat · 13-02-2025 02:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167309#Comment_123167309

its not that they're realistically going to beat us, its that they will be better than they have been over the first two games, and yes i think they will be more difficult to rack up a big score against now than they would have been had the status quo continued.

the fact that they can now play an experienced 10 with a huge and fast crash ball 12 outside him would be an immediate improvement on a 10 of Thomas / Edwards and 12 of James or watkin (whos now injured)

fixing those issues is what i mean by "sorting their sh!t out" …. i dont mean that they have suddenly restructured their player pathway and delivered 23 test level players in 1 week.

Podge_irl · 13-02-2025 02:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167380#Comment_123167380

Yeah, fair enough but a week is not a long time to do much. I appreciate a good 10 and a crash ball 12 is one of the easier ways to focus your game, but if they are trying to introduce any kind of new attacking structure it is as likely they'll be a bit all over the place as anything else.

pjdarcy · 14-02-2025 11:36AM

Any thoughts on Albert Heenops's article in the times today?

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/2025/02/14/when-springboks-join-the-six-nations-then-you-can-call-it-rugbys-greatest-championship/

The headline is a bit obnoxious but I've got to say, the thought of Italy being replaced with the Boks does whet the appetite (although, to be clear, he suggests changing it to a 7 nation tournament but I doubt that would work with the current rugby schedule)

Jump_In_Jack · 14-02-2025 12:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123170286#Comment_123170286

To go to 7 teams would be a mess for scheduling, it would be better to go to 8 teams, and split to two pools of 4.
Then could either:
Option A) Have a crossover for semi-finals and finals.
Or
Option B) Have the top two teams play the top two teams in the other pool and use a points tally between the top 4 teams to decide the winner.
It would mean the end of the full round robin, there's no way the "7-Nations or 8-Nations" would be allowed to eat up 7 weekends plus rest weekends.

Option A would be simpler, but as there'd be a chance of playing the final round against a team already played I'd go with Option B,
so for example Pool 1 Ire, Fra, Ita, Wal, Pool 2 SA, Eng, Sco, Georgia.
Make the opening two rounds between the top two ranked teams against the bottom two ranked teams.
After the first 2 rounds take a rest week, then third round, then a rest week then whatever top two teams are left come out of the two pools into a new pool, and bottom 4 teams into a separate pool,
e.g.
Week 1 - Round 1: Ire v Ita, Fra v Wal, SA v Sco, Eng v Geo.
Week 2 - Round 2: Ire v Wal, Fra v Ita, SA v Geo, Eng v Sco.
Week 3 - Rest week
Week 4 - Round 3: Ire v Fra, Ita v Wal, SA v Eng, Sco v Geo.
Week 5 - Rest week

Top Pool Ire, Fra, SA, Eng, Bottom Pool Ita, Wal, Sco, Georgia.
Week 6 - Round 4: Ire v Eng, Fra v SA, Ita v Geo, Sco v Wal.
Week 7 - Round 5: Ire v SA, Fra v Eng, Ita v Sco, Wal v Geo.

Ire play SA and Eng, and add to the points they got against Fra,
Fra do the same,
SA play Ire and Fra and add to the points they got against Eng,
Eng do the same.
whoever gets the most points wins.
Same for bottom pool.

The teams would have to be shuffled every year, could probably use the previous year's results for the seeding of the next season.

Exclamation Marc · 14-02-2025 12:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123170286#Comment_123170286

As you say, a seventh nation won't work at all. It would be a complete mess logistically for a number of reasons.

I do laugh at the thought of Italy being replaced when Wales are languishing below Georgia in the world rankings.

Ultimately the home nations will never collectively remove Italy (who themselves are a member) and rightfully so so its a non-runner.

As things currently stand, South Africa is the only Tier One rugby nation, on this side of the planet, which is excluded from the Six Nations.

It just doesn’t seem right.

Or is it just a matter of convenience, for the likes of Ireland, France and England, not having to combat the mighty Boks for the title of kings of Europe too?

What a load of twaddle.

BoardsMember · 14-02-2025 12:33PM

His attempt to re-classify how we see the world segmented is interesting. No longer northern versus southern hemisphere, now it's this side of the world (Europe and SA) versus that side (AU, NZ, and presumably ARG?).

SA moving to Northern hemisphere for national team makes sense given the clubs already have. But long term it damages international rugby as a whole. I think rugby needs to move towards a unified playing season worldwide.

Good luck world rugby sorting that one out.

Oíche Na Gaoithe Móire · 14-02-2025 12:46PM

A great aid to us winning the 6 Nations and Grand Slams at present is a relatively weak England, poor Wales and Scotland who fall to pieces against us compared to the 1980s and 90s. But that won't always be the case particularly with regards to England.

Same can be said when other nations are winning the 5/6 Nstions. There are sides at a low ebb. From a purely selfish point of view I don't want to see SA in the competition, especially at the expense of a European side.

Exclamation Marc · 14-02-2025 01:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123170512#Comment_123170512

Is SA moving to the Northern Hemisphere really sensical? The same timezone argument is generally thrown in there (not by you) but it's an 11 hour flight from London to South Africa. It's not efficient to have that distance between teams in a competition.

The SA teams have all crashed out of Europe. The European URC teams tend to send weaker squads down to SA. Some of the SA clubs have publicly said they're not really trying to compete anymore because they feel their players are flogged.

CMOTDibbler · 14-02-2025 01:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123170286#Comment_123170286

Laughable. I won't say impossible, but it pretty much is. At the moment, the teams can prepare at home and then catch a relatively short flight to (at the farthest) Rome or Paris etc. Adding SA would mean travelling out, acclimatising and training away from home and playing in summer conditions instead of winter/spring.

Nuts.

sydthebeat · 14-02-2025 01:57PM

Boks have committed to the Rugby Championship up to 2030, so all that article is is fluff.

feasible after that?? i dunno. i cant see World Rugby being happy with it.

Ben Bailey · 14-02-2025 02:00PM

From the IT article by Heenop

'This marketing exercise, however, is viewed quite curiously from down in South Africa − curious because how can any rugby competition be regarded as the “greatest” if it does not involve the Springboks?'

It's almost as if people in South Africa feel that their position as World Champions is not appreciated by the Northern Hemisphere / This side of the planet.

Would the costs involved in travelling to South Africa once every 2 years eat into the Unions & CVC earnings ?.

Is it the glory & honour of competing in the 6N (sic) SA care about ? or is a case of the cash being greener on the other side ?

AbusesToilets · 14-02-2025 02:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123170286#Comment_123170286

Italy are full owners of the 6Ns, along with the other countries, so no one is kicking them out. I don't want SA in the comp. Terrible for travel, and would fundamentally change the nature of it.

Much rather they look to bring in some European teams. Spain and Portugal would be my preference. They play some lovely attacking rugby, great locations to travel to, and a rugby scene on the up. Harsh on Georgia, but they're just way too far away.

eagle eye · 14-02-2025 02:32PM

Its bad enough that South African teams were allowed join with Europe. That ruined Super rugby. Let's not ruin the Rugby Championship by allowing their international team into a European competition as well.

They are a southern hemisphere country.

Paul Smeenus · 14-02-2025 04:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123170888#Comment_123170888

"Marketing exercise questioned by audience outside target market."

Riveting, Irish Times.

Six Nations 2025

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