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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    This is just sad.

    We win with a bonus point against England, and you rewatch the game with the purpose of noting kicks from the out half that went too long, so you can point score on the internet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,120 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Rewatched it there myself. Crowley really didn't do all that much in the attacking game when he came on. He wasn't involved in creating either of the two tries.

    60th minute, he passes to Henshaw, who pops the ball to Doris, who knocks it on.

    63rd minute, passes to Henshaw, who takes it into contact. JGP then passes to Lowe from the ruck, setting up Beirne's try.

    67th minute, he makes a nice pop pass out the back while being tackled to put Hansen in space, leading to Keenan's kick into the deadball area and Murley's **** up.

    68th minute, we're on the line and he cuts inside, with Curry making the steal.

    69th minute, takes a pass from JGP and shuffles it on to Henshaw. Ball is recycled and he puts up a kick into the 22, which Smith marks. From the following lineout, puts up a bomb that England regather.

    74th minute, regathers a spilled English ball and tries a behind the back pass to Henderson, which goes into touch.

    78th minute, we're attacking in the English, he 22 pops a pass to Doris, who carries into contact. From the ruck, he gets the ball and gives a nice pullback pass to Ringrose working right. He passes to Lowe, who puts Conan into space on the right wing. Murley shoulder charges him into touch.

    79th minute, Ireland are attacking from an English clearing kick. He gets the ball away to Ringrose as he's being tackled. Ball is recycled and he gets it again, popping it to Keenan on a crash ball. From that ruck, he gets the ball again and carries it briefly before popping it to Healy, who rumbles through a couple of tackles. 2 phases later, gets the ball one last time on the left, passing to Lowe on the short side, who pops it to Murray. Ball gets turned over by England in the ruck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    We just got a bonus-point win, and you lot are here arguing over which young fly-half is better like it’s life or death. Grown men debating like selectors when none of you have ever played a real game—sad stuff.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,192 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    To be honest, I'm not entirely sure either of them deserves to be in the "excellent" category and I think that is part of the problem in Irish rugby when it comes to discussions about which should start. I would argue we have two very good 10s with different strengths and weaknesses, but those weaknesses for both are actually quite glaring at the moment. We wouldn't be calling either player excellent if they played for England or Scotland.

    That being said they are a strong 1-2 combo to have start and come off the bench in whatever order.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    Tbh there is something to this, but I've gotten a bit fed up of some of the bullshit I've been reading today.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,799 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Boyle. I like him.
    Plus he has the head of a lad born to prop.

    I expect he’ll get capped v Italy.

    I’d start him v Wales.
    Give Porter max R&R for France game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    If Bealham is available next week I wouldn't be against Boyle starting v Scotland with View to Porter coming on at 30. It won't happen but we need to give him gametime and soon



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    The one-stop maul rule was rejected and doesn't apply in 2025.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,758 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I'd missed that. Why don't Ireland (and leinster) use it like they did in the last few years?

    It was worth a try a game over the years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 946 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Planet Rugby Lions assessment of Winners & Losers over the first round of the 6N has Finn Russell as a Loser on balance and Jack Crowley as now in contention which I felt would be the case but it got no traction here.


    Jack Crowley

    The introduction of Jack Crowley off the bench was another catalyst behind Ireland’s comeback win yesterday, and Farrell should be on red alert as a result. Ireland’s attack was a lot slicker with the Munsterman at the helm, which allowed them to pull away from England with ease. This was the reminder Farrell needed of Crowley’s true quality, and he could very easily have put himself back in the Lions picture as a result.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 946 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    and this is an interesting assessment for team of the week , Crowley in as 10 ahead of NTamack (red card) & Russell . Du Pont in as 9 with JGP 23 .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,811 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Crowley has always been in contention, no?

    Pretty much everyone in the Ireland 23 is in contention but out-half is a particularly open position IMO.

    Russell is the only one you’d say is nailed on, so that probably leaves two spots up for grabs and unless Owen Farrell is in the mix, no one stands out as being significantly better than Crowley. I could well see him going.

    Definitely a contender but I doubt Saturday moved the needle one way or the other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Irelands attack was slicker because we were generating quicker ruck ball and were playing on the front foot as a result of England's players tiring from a lot of defending in the first 50-60 minutes aided by the arrival of two big ball carriers in Conan and Sheehan who had big impact on the game.

    Crowley had little to no contribution to the two tries we scored. IIRC JGP put Lowe through a gap who passed to Beirne and the 2nd one was all about Sheehan and Lowe



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 946 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    I got the impression that Irish 10 representation was not really viewed as likely given the Russell / Smith preference but maybe I took it up wrong. I think Crowley is right up there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,324 ✭✭✭✭phog


    For the Beirne try, Crowley was attracting the attention of a defender, making a gap easier for Lowe

    For Lowes try, England kicked the ball away, Heenan gathered the kick, Crowley was the next man into the protect the ruck.

    Reading some comments here you'd swear he was passive (except for his errors) throughout the game. The same commentary failed to mention he converted both tries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,304 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    If I was the stand in manager of Ireland I would start Crowley for the Scotland game.

    That would maybe answer a few questions in the great scheme of things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 818 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    I think Crowley was very good when he came on.
    I don’t think he was a deciding factor in Irelands 2nd half performance.

    I don’t think Sam was as bad as some posters are making out and don’t think Crowley was as good as some posters are making out.

    Sam probably a 6 out of 10. Crowley probably a 7. Very little in it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,114 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    The kick was poor no doubt but Ollie Lawrence getting through three tackles in midfield was much more to blame for the ensuing score.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,192 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I would be surprised if an Irish 10 played any test minutes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,120 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    He wasn't passive, but he was less involved in the structure of the attack than Prendergast was. I broke down his passing involvements in a previous post. His most significant pass came on the sequence when Conan got shouldered into touch. It's arguably his most significant attacking moment was when he cut inside over exploiting an overlap to the right. He had a fine game, but the claim he had a better game than Prendergast has little basis imo. He wasn't a factor in either of the tries, and he wasn't particularly integral to any attacks we had.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,324 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I'd agree with this and I've said I think if it was already decided before the games, I'd start Sam against Scotland.

    Some of stuff being said on the forum would lead me to think that some posters just watch the ball or ball carrier and they see very little else.

    Sometimes, it's interesting to go back a phase or two and see what was gained or lost in the lead up to a score.

    Like if Jack hadn't got to that ruck before the Sheehan try and countered against the arriving English player, Keenan might well have been penalised for holding. What a turnaround that would have been.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,324 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Now, can you do a clock watch on Sam, in the interest of fairness too all, players and posters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Crowley also had the offload to Hansen which was, imo, a more difficult pass to execute than Prendergast’s to Aki.

    I’m not inclined to do a minute-by-minute breakdown of Prendergast, but I just don’t think overall it’s favourable vs Crowley. Boards is one of the few places I’ve seen people suggesting they were even comparable, let alone Prendergast being better.

    I also think it’s a little exaggerating his involvement in Aki’s try by call the pass (a quality pass, in fairness) “integral”.

    Aki still had everything to do, and it took a world class finish and some awful defending for Aki to score. It’s not like it created a walk-in try, or even an opportunity you’d expect to score from tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,120 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Crowley didn't make a single pass over 5ms iirc, Prendergast had multiple ones, which all hit the receiver in stride at chest height.

    I also think it’s a little exaggerating his involvement in Aki’s try by call the pass (a quality pass, in fairness) “integral”.

    AKi doesn't score the try without the pass, fairly fundamental part of the process. If Prendergast doesn't nail the skip pass, the cover drifts across and Aki doesn't have the space to make the line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 Sportsmad5


    A coach will not make a selection decision based on one tackle in a single game, he will look at the season. According to ESPN both 10's were not very involved in the tackling front on Saturday, only one completed tackle each with JC missing one & SP two.

    The IRFU website breaks down the tackles made by each player in the current international season , but for some reason SP are not included, here are some details of Crowley and those around him.

    JGP 14 made 10 missed

    JC 20 made 2 missed

    GR 24 made 17 missed

    RH 17 made 4 missed

    BA 31 made 5 missed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    He’s a better long passer than Crowley. But focusing on 5m passes to assess their performances misses a huge amount of everything else.

    Like I said, I think Crowley’s offload to Hansen is a more difficult pass to execute.

    That’s without mentioning kicking, defending, carrying, rucking etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Exactly this; Crowley had no involvement in the 2 tries if you only look at the singular phase before those tries.

    Alternatively, Crowley had no involvement in the 2 tries yet still out-performed Prendergast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 448 ✭✭Skyfloater


    delete.

    Post edited by Skyfloater on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,192 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Izichukwu. I think he would thrive in a stronger pack.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,120 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    1st min, ball from lineout, SP pops ball to Aki on an inside cut.

    3rd min lineout ball in our 22, SP dinks a kick over the defense, regathered by Ringrose

    5th min, end of sequence from an English kick, kicks high ball which is regathered by Steward

    6 min, pick goes from a ruck, makes 5 ms. Few phases later, takes a pass on the left, runs an arcing line and is tackled. Ball spills out of the ruck into touch.

    7 min, receives ball from the linout and hoists kick which is gathered uncontested by England

    8 min, kicks deep from an Irish ruck, gathered uncontested by Smith. England score from this sequence.

    12 min, mesy scrum in the English 22. Gets pull back pass from Baird, passes to Keenan in space, who cuts back in and is tackled.

    13 min, on penalty adv, gets ball in front of the posts and fires a pass into an English player. Whistle blows. Would criticise him here for not running at the gap, or putting a kick through. 5ms out from the line, he needs to be more aggressive imo. This is the sequence that ultimately ends with the disallowed try.

    17 min, Ireland gather kick, SP receives cut back pass from Ryan and passes to Keenan sweeping across. From following ruck on the right touchline, receives pass and hits Bealham. Itoje knocks on in the tackle and SP gathers the fumbled ball, fires a pass into midfield that's intercepted. Dangerous play imo.

    19 min, takes ball from scrum and crossfield kicks to Lowe, who gathers and puts in a line kick to the English 22. England counter attack, ultimately getting to the Irish 10.

    22 min, clears kick from our 22 to the half way line

    24 min, from an Irish attacking lineout, takes pass from Aki on 3rd phase. Puts Hansen through a gap, who offloads to Baird for a big run down the right. Ireland win a penalty and Smith is YC'd.

    27 min, Ireland take a quick throw and from the ruck, SP puts in a deep kick to the right touchline. Aki nails Slade, but England retain possession.

    28 min, after a JGP box, Ireland regather and are attacking just inside the English half. SP gets the ball at 2nd receiver and puts in a long skip pass to hit Hansen in stride on the right touchline, who makes it to the English 22. Ball is turned over in the ruck.

    29 min, attacking ball off of an English overthow at the lineout. SP does the Sexton loop going left. He gets outside of Slade on the edge, creating a 3 on 2. I'd cricitise him here again for not backing himself and taking the gap. He had Ringrose and JGP on his right, with only Mitchell sweeping across. Freeman had already turned his hips to track Keenan, and he could've gone through cleanly. Instead he passes to Keenan, who gets tackled. From the ruck, the ball sweeps right, with SP taking a cutback pass from Aki. He carries to the line well here, committing Mitchell and putting Vdf into acres of space with the line at his mercy. For some unknown reason, he cuts inside and the ball is knocked on by Aki shortly afterwards. This is one of SP's best series of actions in the game.

    30 min, Ireland attacking again outside the English 22. SP pops a pass to Ringrose, who pops to Keenan on a crash. Ireland win a penalty at the ruck.

    32 min, from a 5m lineout, ball spills lose in tackle. SP pops it Porter running an arc to the left. Ball makes it to Lowe on the wing, who gets tripped by Steward. From the following ruck, SP gets the ball on a cut back, hits Hansen with a long pass to the right. Ball is ultimately lost forward.

    34 min, irish lineout on halfway. SP gets the ball on 2nd phase, throws a bad pass behind Hansen on the right touchline. Ball ends up back on halfway, where SP gets it again from the ruck. Pops it to Ringrose, who makes a phenomenal pass to Lowe on the left touchline. He man shames Mitchell in the tackle and Ireland score. SP misses the conversion.

    36 min, Ireland work their kick off return in their 22. SP passes to Keenan sweeping to the right, then to Ringrose after the next ruck. Ireland lose possession and England ultimately kick it away to force an Irish lineout in their 22.

    46 min, from an Irish tap and go on the English 5m, receives the ball on the right side of the posts and puts in a massive skip pass to hit Keenan in stride on the left, putting him on the outside of the English defensive line. Mitchell makes an excellent scramble tackle, killing the 2 vs 1 chance. Ref blows for Irish penalty.

    50 min, after a bit of back and forth, Ireland are attacking in the English 22. SP gets the ball on the left, and puts in a long skip pass to Aki, hitting him in stride to put him away down the left. Ireland score. SP misses the conversion.

    54 min, England give away a penalty at the lineout. SP nails the kick for 3pts.

    55 min, hanging clearance kick to halfway, which England fail to catch it and Ireland regather. From the ruck, Ryan passes back to SP, who fires a skip pass to Doris wide on the left. He puts Conan into space, who pops to Lowe, who kicks out on the full.

    58 min, Crowley comes on.

    Bolded what I'd consider his most significant inputs.



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