Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Yeah but the whole thing is always 'there were no 40 beheaded babies' which no one, including netanyahu ever said. Some kids were beheaded, just like some adults were. People have seen the evidence of that. Does it make it ok that it wasnt exactly 40 babies? Or are you trying to claim that there were no beheadings at all?

I would argue that people who livestream themselves attempting to hack off a living person's head with a garden tool have done a pretty good job of dehumanising themselves tbh

Are you willing to see Irish people live in poverty for Palestinians?

That's where we are are headed so I wonder how you will explain it?

The morals is it? You will tell the Irish people their reduced living standards is for moral reasons?

Yeah I think you'll have a very hard time.

So, no take-back on your false accusation of dual loyalties? What's up next, Holocaust denial? Your squares are filling in.

Oh wow, I thought we had seen the end of Holocaust denial and trivialisation.

Given that the vast vast majority of those shipped through the concentration camps were Jewish, it is not in the least surprising that a holocaust website devotes most of its attention to that. That you are angered by that says more about you than about the website.

@deirdremf stated that 10 of Biden's cabinet was Jewish.

I mentioned that Jews are grossly over represented in almost every field of excellence. Having disproportionate numbers in the cabinet of the worlds leading economy is not surprising. Do you disagree?

Either you believe that is a natural follow on from their success in general society or it is for some other reason. In a thread with posters tripping over themselves to state they are anti Zionism but not anti Semite, the above post went unchallenged and was even thanked.

If someone posted there was too many blacks/Hispanics/women in a given group them would be rightly called out unless they provided a solid rational reason for that view.

It's saying/hinting at something without saying fully, but its clearly anti semitic.

It hasn't a lot to do with the conflict but I didn't bring it up.

You'll note the poster has ran from addressing the issue of why Jews are so successful is most societies they live in. It is on its own a very interesting topic with clear difference evident in the USA for example between Chinese/Indian descendants and say Hispanics/whites etc.

Silence often speaks louder than endless ranting

The point was they were for some reason over represented.

When evidence was provided that they were over represented in every walk of life there has been silence in terms of rational debate.

I would think it would be more relevant if they are over represented in terms of previous cabinets/administration staff. I do recall some Jewish staff resigning because they so disgusted at Biden's support of Israel's actions in Gaza during the last year. Biden is ultimately to blame not his staffers.

Just to deal with your last point first; you are making a strawman there. I specifically called out the post in relation to Biden's cabinet as being anti semitic. I am not saying you can't fairly criticise Jews/Zionists where it is deserved, no group is exempt from any criticism.

Historically the Jews who originally left, pre mandate were seen as kinda of frontier/eccentric type. Why leave a succesful career in law/banking/media etc to go the the desert in the early 20th Century. Now it seems many of the new arrivals are eastern European Jews and generally appear to be more hawkish/right wing. I'd imagine the views of the new arrivals is more zealous/expansionist the pre WW2 settlers from Europe.

It appears to me the extreme view on both sides is they claim from the Jordan River to the Sea, no doubt some have even wider plans.

Why would the USA back Israel? If you confine your thinking to Israel and Palestine you will never get a resolution to that question.

The Middle east is almost entirely Muslim, and within Muslim group is overwhelmingly majority Sunni Muslim. Over the years the Sunni countries who used to war with Israel are on much better terms Egypt, Jordan and the Saudis/Emirates etc.

Since the 1979 Revolution the Shia Iranian regime has been in a proxy war with Israel. It set up and funded Hezbollah just to achieve one of its primary aims, the destruction of Israel. One of its other main stated aims is Death to America the great Satan.

Iran's involvement over the last 40years but in particular the last 20 has helped with getting more hawkish and right wing government in power. It's hard to understand for an Irish person ( with no real military and free loading off the USA/NATO/UK umbrella for security), but if you are Israeli on a constant war footing with compulsory military service, Iron dome to combat daily weekly rockets etc etc are you going to vote for the party talking nice or the one who promises security (it can only promise short to medium term)?

If the Iranian weren't involved a more moderate Israeli government could sell a two state solution. While they continue to fund proxies there is no chance of anyone in government in Israel other than the current type of government. War will continue and Palestinians will suffer and die in hugely disproportionate numbers

Given the strategic importance of the energy fields in the region, Suez canal etc the USA has to have a presence in the area.

If the choice for USA is Israel or Iran; there is no choice. Palestinian life is cheap to all involved including the Israelis/Iranians/*Hamas/USA.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/12/hamas-death-toll-gaza-sinwar-messages/

Must of the Sunni countries in the region are more than happy to have the USA/Israel keeping the boot on Iran's neck.

That video of Arbel Yehud is particularly upsetting. Young woman being hounded by a mob. They really should have handled that better.

You seem to be putting a lot of blame solely on Iran, and whilst there is some truth in what you say, was life for the Palestinians any better before the Iranian Revolution of 79? Was there Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory? Were the Israelis taking land? Was there regular conflict? I dont know if you meant it intentionally, but you nailed a root cause equally as bad as Iran. The US. Why do they have to be in the region as you stated? For the benefit of the ME or for their own benefit? Is it then surprising that Iran might not be too fond of US meddling in the region. Whether it was Britain/France with the Balfour Declaration/Sykes-Picot Agreement or now the US. Western interference is a big reason for the mess in the ME, and Israel is the US proxy in the region.

Israel has always had to worry about their security, it is why they made sure they were much better armed than the surrounding countries in the 40s. Every country in the region was opposed to the creation to Israel. As far back as the post WW1 period, the idea of creating a Jewish state in the region was considered folly as it was guaranteed to cause a quarrel with the Arabs whose land would be taken. The Israelis have always known setting up a state in the land of another people would require massive security. They like to play the victim, but they always knew the realities of the Zionist project and were prepared to take on those risks.

I agree a lot of the early settlers were like adventurers, as they were settling in the Ottoman Empire with an almost zero chance of a possible Jewish state. I would imagine most were not really Zionists at all, they just wanted to live in what they considered their ancestral home. Once the Balfour Declaration was announced, things definitely changed and there were plenty of hard-core Zionists in the region before WW2. Many didn't want to accept even the UN partition plan as they wanted much more land than what they were given. For the more moderates, they viewed partition like Collins viewed the Anglo-Irish Treaty, a stepping stone. Make no mistake, the aim has always been expansion, with very little interest in a Palestinian state.

Is this referring to the same poster who thinks that they see a black woman in the second photo in post 39725?

It's the way you word your posts, that is what makes you come across as not Irish.

You might find it worthwhile having a look at Joe Brunoli's article on how to argue with zionists.

Should what happened in Auschwitz be of any interest to us? That being the death camp which is 80 years and 1800km removed from Dublin.

Will you let us know the official cutoff in terms of miles away. Thanks. Otherwise it's getting confusing as I thought it was something we should be aware of and mark etc.