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2024 will certainly be the hottest year on record. We're shooting past 1.5c ahead of schedule

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    No lots and lots of taxes solve climate change. Dont be daft.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,542 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Have you any idea of the environmental cost of AI systems?

    The current generation of AI systems consume vast amounts of data centre processing power, electricity and water. And for what - mostly so that people under forty never have to actually write and email again, and can use chatGPT to draft everything they produce. We have ChatGPT generated CVs going into ChatGPT assessed HR systems, with little human intervention in between. We have vast amounts of online content, including a fair chunk of boards.ie posts being generated by AI for no useful purpose. We have AI chatbots providing customer services because it's easier than producing a well designed customer support website that actually supports customers.

    And you want to wait for future generations which will consume exponentially more power and water?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,150 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    If we taxed the sh*t out of heavy polluters and made cleaner products and energy sources cheaper, globally, or even at EU level, it would definitely help to reduce emissions, good idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭323


    Current ice age, the Quaternary started (some believe on a Tuesday) 2.6 years ago and hasn't ended.

    We are currently in an interglacial period (the Holocene) which began about 11,700 years ago.

    We're also still coming out of the mini ice age and the climate alarmist would have us believe a miniscule rise in temperature will kill us all.

    They do seem to make a good living from their fear mongering all the same.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    The biggest polluter avitation pay no carbon tax and have only plans for further expansation example Dublin airport



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Current ice age, the Quaternary started (some believe on a Tuesday) 2.6 years ago and hasn't ended.

    I had assumed it was much older than that!

    Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/ .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,150 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    how do you get the electorate to swallow the hiked prices for their city breaks and sun holidays though?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Planting trees in Ireland (ideally decades ago) would have, and will solve all of Ireland's carbon targets along with other efforts.

    This is a dangerously badly-written statement. "Trees will solve all Ireland's carbon targets along with other efforts"?

    What does that even mean? What other efforts - do you mean like, I don't know, cutting down on carbon emissions in the first place? In that case, I agree with you - but it's worth noting the balance between the two. Cutting down on carbon > > planting trees (and we need to do both)

    Trees are not an infinite carbon sink. They fill up after a while. They also take time to get going (saplings absorb less than bigger trees, but then as trees mature they fill up and absorb less again, and then trees die and release what they've absorbed) and we don't really have time.

    Here's a 2024 paper from MIT which suggests as a starting point that the US needs to plant enough trees to cover the entire of New Mexico each year just to deal with its CO2 emissions. That doesn't allow for areas that aren't plantable - so the real size of that many trees would be much bigger. And I don't think that includes CO2 from flying or from goods manufactured abroad but for the American market - national stats tend to ignore those items.

    That's obviously not practical.

    Trees are absolutely part of the solution. But they will not solve everything on their own, as you seem to be suggesting. Particularly when you fob off carbon reduction with "Technology will bring other, newer solutions before too long" and "Technology will develop very quickly in the coming years", and then cite technology that's been in train for years at this stage, and even AI. I watched James May's Big Ideas recently - it had an hour-long episode on renewable energy and where it was going to come from. It covered tidal, solar, wave, nuclear, wind and other energies. Those are still in development - but the episode was filmed in 2008. So we're at least 20 years talking about them and they're still in development. That's not the "technology will develop very quickly in the coming years" you suggest.

    Why not just cut your carbon footprint? (I presume it's because you don't want to of course)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    I used to care and now I really don't. I can't change peoples' minds to do the right thing and many are willfully ignorant. I cycle mostly and the hatred (and it is hatred) towards cyclists is just completely unreasonable and selfish. People actively try to inconvenience and injure cyclist all the time.

    You have the anti-science people arguing about anything to say climate change is not real.

    I have no kids so it won't affect me much but it is your kids and grand kids that will suffer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Hyperbollix


    As a species, we're basically in the situation where the fire alarms have gone off and we're all looking around at each other wondering if it's just a drill and if we should bother to get off our arse and leave the building. My money is on us continuing to ignore the warnings until the flames are at our feet.

    Unfortunately, humanity needed another 50 to 100 years to mature beyond cut-throat, winner takes all capitalism. As it stands, the mind boggling levels of greed, vested interest and corruption that are baked into the global system of commerce means we will never do more than fiddle around the edges of the problem. And that's just countries that acknowledge there even is a problem. The rest of the world is not going to stay poor in order to solve a problem they didn't create.

    We are cooked. As hard as it is to believe, we are living through the good old days.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    image.png

    Computer generated graphics with no bearing on reality. We are being taxed to fund this propaganda nonsense on RTE.
    Here is how the sausage is made.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,549 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    couldn’t give a monkeys, nothing more I personally can do. My individual carbon footprint is pretty responsible…Our government on the other hand…

    Kicking the metro down the line, yet again…..That keeps people more in private vehicles.

    Actively encouraging population growth… without limits, more energy usage, more flights in and out of the country, more cars, more waste…more demand on public transport too…which is often overcrowded and oversubscribed. Forcing some people back into private transport More pollution ! Too many people want to have their cake and eat it.

    So I’m not going to feel guilty about taking a couple of flights a year to get out of this kip for some r&r , not going to feel guilty about using a car to the gym or shopping or needing to drive to wherever…. All the bus routes are being cancelled or renamed and rerouted around here. Longer travel times to the stops and on the bus to the destinations is the outcome.

    So any politician wanting to give me / us a lecture will be ignored. In fact will be given a face full of front door, wouldn’t waste words on them.

    Our politicians are doing little more than paying the situation lip service and virtue signalling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 613 ✭✭✭littlefeet


    I live very lightly not that will make any difference.

    The real thorn that no one wants to grasp is that to make a real difference we would have to lower our standard of living to make a real change.

    I love how the argument fall in to the same categories all major human crisis have.

    The God argument : atone for your wicket ways and return to a pre oil society.

    The no God argument : there is no god technology will save us man is in charge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Viable aternatives for travel aint exactly abundant in this fair isle.

    The hippocracy is deafening really.

    Unless governments as a whole start getting their act together. Why should the individual be any different.

    This exercise of just slapping a tax on something and call it going green is sickening considering people have no choice to either pay it or pay it and still does not mitigate the problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,524 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Each person on this earth is like a mini-radiator, and due to media etc nowadays everyone wants the jet set lifestyle with cars etc. Our world population was 1 billion in 1800 and now is over 8 billion and increasing, and many people in African and middle eastern countries and 5 -8 in a family and each of those have 5 to 8. It is unsustainable for our climate and planet.

    If you google it, you will see " The world's population is more than three times larger than it was in the mid-twentieth century. The global human population reached 

    8.0 billion in mid-November 2022 from an estimated 2.5 billion people in 1950, adding 1 billion people since 2010 and 2 billion since 1998"

    .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,799 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    …hope ta god you re getting paid to post your nonsense on this stuff, as you certainly must be spending enormous amount of your time online sh1tting on about it!

    yes the approach of taxation wont solve this problem, as it will just turn people against it, as is currently occurring, states must step up to the mark, as the public simply cannot do it alone via taxation and personal debt, states must take on significantly more debt, in order to do so, and no, its not propaganda, our environmental issues are really real, as we all sit and watch la burn!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Anyone feel the apocalypse? The polar bears are doing just fine, as is the coral reef off Australia. The Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets failed to slide into the sea, the North Pole ice cap is still there, and you can still buy food in the supermarket. The fear narrative is not working as planned.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Actually the Greenland ice cap is shrinking at an increasing rate, the coral reef is being hit by record bleaching events, polar bears are struggling to find food, the North Pole ice cap has halved in 40 years, and the west of Antarctica is melting away quite quickly too.

    So as Blackadder might say - there's just one tiny aspect of your post that needs changing. The words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,133 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Whatever way you cut it the public will be paying. Be it through taxation or servicing state debt.

    So should we not be looking for the best bang from our buck rather than the present plan for electricity generation which is going nowhere to getting us to our projected needs or supply us with electricity that will not sink our economy out of sight.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,704 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I'm sure you can find an article in the 'Global warming policy foundation' that supports each of your positions.

    Just like people who wanted to keep smoking could find plenty of stories saying that smoking was healthy from unscrupulous shills who are more than happy to take money to write content even knowing that it will destroy lives.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,704 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The cost of inaction is never included in your estimates. Nor are the benefits of becoming Net energy exporters.

    If Ireland does not modernise our energy infrastructure, what are the costs? How much will the economy suffer if we remain fully dependent on Oil and Gas that is sourced from mostly unstable and unfriendly regimes?

    How much will our population suffer if our climate changes to the point that our agricultural system collapses, or if we become inundated with climate refugees with all of the political and social unrest this tends to bring?

    Climate change brings all kinds of risks, More damaging weather extremes, changes in biodiversity including the spread of pathogens and pests, and the potential for extremely damaging events like the emergence of new deadly Fungal pathogens that can resist temperatures above human body temperature for which Humanity has no natural immunity (there is evidence that this is already beginning to happen)

    While adapting to climate change brings benefits. It provides jobs, economic opportunities, lower costs of living, distributed energy production, storage and distribution, self sufficiency, improved efficiency. Better air quality, lower noise pollution in towns and cities……

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,133 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    What are the benefits of having the second highest charges for electricity in Europe, which under the presently proposed 37GW offshore wind/hydrogen 2050 plan would go even higher and have the consumer footing the bill for a strike price of 2.5X that of the U.K. ?

    A proposed plan that would after costing over €200 Bn. still not deliver anything close to our estimated 2050 demand. Clean air is great, but nobody every lived off fresh air.

    I have never said we should just continue to use fossil fuels. What I have said is that we need to get off fossil fuels for generation, but in a way that will not devastate our economy. I have posted data here numerous times showing that is what would happen with this current proposed plan that I do not recall you contesting.

    So rather than attempting to misrepesent what I said, lets see your figures of how that is possible from what you propose that would not turn our economy into a basket case, rather than being a continuous sanctimonious hurler on the ditch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,704 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Forget about the 200 billion you keep banging on about. Big numbers are scary, you need to break it down to the costs per MWh, and then with some cushion for commercial expenses, convert those to domestic unit rates.


    Generation Costs: Offshore wind auction prices in comparable markets like Scotland are approximately €43–€84 per MWh.

    Transmission and Distribution Costs: Ireland's grid upgrades for handling increased renewable capacity, such as interconnectors, localised storage, and enhanced grid stability, could add around €10–€20 per MWh.

    Storage Costs:While much storage is localised (e.g., EVs and home batteries), grid-scale storage like pumped hydro and grid batteries might contribute another €5–€10 per MWh.


    Balancing Costs:Variability in wind and solar requires balancing the grid (e.g., reserve capacity, imports). This is estimated at around €5–€15 per MWh, depending on the integration of interconnectors and storage efficiency.


    Energy Trading via Interconnectors: Income from exporting excess electricity can offset costs. In a well-integrated system, this might reduce net balancing costs by €5–€10 per MWh.


    Supplier Margins, VAT, and Levies: Electricity suppliers typically add operational costs and profit margins. In Ireland, VAT on domestic electricity is 9%, and other levies (like PSO charges) could total around €20–€30 per MWh.

    Estimated Cost Breakdown per MWh

    Cost Component

    Estimated Cost (€)

    Generation (offshore wind)

    43–84

    Transmission/Distribution

    10–20

    Storage

    5–10

    Balancing Costs

    5–15

    Trading Offsets

    (-5) to (-10)

    VAT, Levies, and Margins

    20–30

    Total

    78–149 per MWh

    Conversion to Cost Per kWh for Consumers

    • 1 MWh = 1,000 kWh
    • Estimated cost to consumers: €0.078–€0.149 per kWh (7.8–14.9 cents per kWh).

    Compare this with the spikes in energy prices we have seen with reliance on imported oil, gas and coal?

    average electricity and gas prices were multiples of these prices in the last few years.

    And this also does not include, at all, the capacity for households to generate their own electricity with Solar PV or industry and commercial premises to supplement their own energy needs with Solar PV, or the other benefits from reductions in demand, the reduction in wasted energy from having spinning reserve or curtailment that would be achieved if we had a well functioning smart grid with interconnectors to the european supergrid.

    Ireland as part of the EU supergrid would be hugely beneficial to European stability as climate change will cause energy insecurity in the EU when there extreme weather events that bring down European grids for weeks at a time (all thermal energy plants require water to operate. Europe will see droughts becoming more common in the future, where even Nuclear power stations have to shut off to save water)

    If you value security and stability, Ireland focusing on our strengths while connecting to the EU grid is in everyone's best interest.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,704 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    BTW, I remember many hours of handwringing over Eamon Ryan blocking all these LNG terminals from setting up in Ireland over the past few years, with doomsday predictions of Ireland having rolling blackouts because of blocking Fracked gas LNG imports.

    where are these posters now? Are you glad we don't have billion euro white elephants dotted around the place that have to be fed imported fossil fuels for the next few decades to justify their existence?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,704 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Also worth noting, that in the current week of record breaking wildfires in LA, where Trump, who opposes both renewable energy, and Climate action, but supports thermal energy generation
    Is blaming California for not managing their water properly such that there isn't enough water to put out the fires.

    California uses about 500 billion litres of water every single year to generate electricity, mostly from thermal power plants, and also nuclear power plants.

    Solar panels require almost no water to operate, and wind turbines require almost no water to operate.

    just saying.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,133 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I have no doubts you would like to forget about that €200 Bn as it is the capital costs for 37GW of offhore turbines that will only generate 7.4 GW for demestic consumption where our needs are projected to be double that, plus the capital costs for hydrogen production. In 2019 U.K. capital cost for offshore were £2.37 Bn. per GW.(€2.81). In the last two years those costs have have risen by 60% according to the wind industry so that now becomes €4.5 Bn per GW. For that 37 GW that will only supply 7.4 GW 50% of our 2050 requirements that is a total for just the capital costs of of offshore of €166.5 Bn. €22.5 Bn per GW. Poland recently signed contracts with Westing house for nuclear (that has over double the capacity factor and over double the lifespan of offshore wind), for €13.5 Bn per GW. And South Korea would have done it for even less.

    The present Contract for Difference in the U.K. is €100 per MWh. and we have another auction for offshore coming up where I very much we will get the same rate or less, but lets say we do. That €100 per MWh for the consummer becomes €200 per MWh as 50% of the generation is for hydrogen production which nobody other than the consumer is going to be paying for, plus the strike price for hydrogen on top (currently according to a poster that favours this plan €21.6 Bn per GW), plus the cost of converting this hydrogen back to electricity, plus that the consummer will be paying for all these offshore companies can generate even if we neither need or want it as guaranteed by Eamon Ryan.

    So tell me from that where you see this hairbrained wind/hydrogen providing electricity at a price that will not sink our economy ?

    The companies creaming it due to the increase in gas prices (the blame for which much of that can be laid at Germany`s door with Putin`s gas, the country Irish greens were falling over themselves praising and following), if the really can generate electricity at the prices they claim are the renewables. Under the marginal pricing policy, another policy that green fingerprints are all over, renewables get paid the same rate as the most expensive source in the generation mix. Regardless of how low that percentage is. Renewables have not made our prices lower. If we were using 100% gas our prices would be the same. We have the second highest in Europe, topped only by Germany that other great advocator of wind whose economy is having serious problems due to their elecectricity prices.If there is anything we should learn from Germany when it comes to generation it is that.

    This idea that we are going to make a fortune selling electricity via interconnectors is absolute nonsemse. For one, we will not have enough for our own needs. And two, when there is a demand when wind drops of the scale for extended periods for Europe it does the same here. For 2023 four of the five net exporters of electricity in Europe were countries that use nuclear in their generation mix. For 2024 French electricity net exports grew by 80% compared to 2023. And that wasn`t just during Dunkelflaute. It was throughout the year. Sweden and Norway are seriously cheesed of with these interconnectors where Germany has been bleeding them dry resulting in massive increases in prices for their own consumers. Norway are threatening not to renew the agreement on the "Denmark Cables"

    All that will be flowing through our interconnectors, same as now with the U.K., is nuclear generated electricity to keep our lights on. Something the U.K. who are themselves net importers of electricity, are making rumblings on. Energy security, meet reality!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,133 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It wasn`t just posters here that told Ryan that we needed LNG for energy security. It was also Eirgrid and the CRU. Which he totally ignored until a report commissioned by his own department told him the same even after he had included in their remit that could not include a LNG terminal on the island in their report, but who were honest enough to recognise that LNG was needed for our energy security and said we needed an offshore terminal. To which Ryan had to accept after all his foot dragging and greens bluster.

    Anyway, why would poster here still be talking about an LNG terminal. Didn`t Ryan promise a ship to do the job, as well as the High Court putting a stop to his disgraceful strong arming of An Bord Planala to get the result he wanted on the Shannon LNG terminal appeal, ruling it was illegal ?

    The world and it`s mother knows if the Shannon terminal reapplies for planning permission it will now be granted and this new government will have no objections to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,704 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Lol. The shills for the Fossil Fuel industry were wrong. We didn't need LNG so Ryans decision saved hundreds of millions. If only he had been able to make more progress on infrastructure for offshore wind. But this is a long term project and we'll get there eventually

    Post edited by Akrasia on

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,704 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its very interesting that charley is opposed to 200 billion in private investment into infrastructure that will benefit Ireland.

    If Shell announced a 200 billion investment in oil and gas terminals and pipelines would you campaign against them?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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