2024 will certainly be the hottest year on record. We're shooting past 1.5c ahead of schedule

Akrasia · 02-01-2025 08:53PM

I think rather than 'forcing' we need incentives.

But the biggest issue is not on the individual ordinary citizen, the responsibility should be on on producers, not consumers.

Regulations amd minimum standards will drive the switch to sustainable economies. Which is exactly why energy industry lobbyists are bribing politicians and funding disinformation campaigns to block and delay regulations and improvements in standards.

cdeb · 02-01-2025 09:06PM

I think while that's fair, you need the public onside for that. It's clear the EU (say) have much more power here than me or you. They could ban SUVs overnight, or long-distance migration or even fruit/veg flown in from half-way around the world. It'd have so much more of an impact than if I were to decide not to buy a Land Rover or move to Australia or buy Chilean grapes. But I feel without public awareness, it makes it easier for companies (who obviously are only out for their bottom line) to kick back against this.

Same way the smoking ban was so much easier to push through once people were aware of the damage it was causing.

Akrasia · 02-01-2025 09:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123010830#Comment_123010830

The EU tend to move slowly and decisively. Bringing in WEEE, banning incandescent lightbulbs, CE mark, Emissions standards, efficiency ratings for appliances, banning wasteful vacuum cleaners etc.

All of these were positive examples of regulations That industry still campaigned against, building some public support before the public almost immediately row in behind once the benefits become clear and obvious.

The regulations should be evidence based, not swayed by public opinion or propaganda from industry funded 'think tanks'

helimachoptor · 02-01-2025 09:50PM

I think i've said this on a few of these threads, I've spent pretty much all of the last 2 years outside of Ireland.

Georgia (country) never a mention of Green anything, pop of almost 4million (use plastic straws!)

India - Reasonable amount of time spent in Delhi/Noida, Mumbai but most of time spent about 5 hours north of Mumbai in what is a small city of about 8 million people. Being in the first two cities, has defintely taken years off my life.

Georgia (state) I'm just at the base of the Appalachians, incredibly beautiful part of the State, but apart from a load of Teslas- there is zero green agenda, everything incl fruit is massively over packaged, huge amount of F150s, 250s, with 5+ litre engines.

Frankly, it feels like there's little point, every green initiative is/will be outweighed massively outweighed by smaller countries trying to catch up in their development, never mind big ones.

I agree the EU is far better than the yanks at this stuff, but

Mercosur will just flood europe with cheap imports, the Amazon will be burned, but the EU will still say its a great deal for all areas, and our EU farmers will be "incentivised" to produce less meat/grains which seems insane.

We imported 20,000 Tonnes of peat but banned our own turf generation, the Greens seem to flag this as an incredible win for some reason and i think recently enough we had a ship land with wooden pellets for burning, but some of the Green PP saying they were eco friendly wood or something.

I broadly agree with what has been said above, i think in the future we'll have the ability to control climate, the question is do we survive until that point.

Akrasia · 03-01-2025 12:07AM

Bigger economic blocks can dictate standards if they choose to. Its political.

The EU could ban or impose tariffs on imports of raw materials from countries that don't commit to reduce GHGs

That alone would drive massive global change.

Why is it not happening? Because of corruption and lobbyists blocking the necessary charges

cdeb · 03-01-2025 10:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123011004#Comment_123011004

i think in the future we'll have the ability to control climate

Based on what?

I don't think there's a single shred of evidence to support that view, even with your caveat that we may end up doing it too late.

I think a lot of people have this view because it's convenient - it means not facing the reality of what's happening, and the reality of what needs to be done.

cdeb · 03-01-2025 10:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123011433#Comment_123011433

I think it's more than corruption and lobbyists to be honest (and I agree it's ridiculous a lobbyist can sway a politician to, for example, keep building SUVs). It's an awareness of economics too. If you cut down on car production (good for carbon emissions) then you lose a lot of jobs - both production and sales. PCP finance basically props up the new car sales market here for example. If you ban the importing of cheap labour from the far side of the world (again good for carbon) then you have to make up the labour shortfall more locally - but then you have to let high-value jobs go to other countries so you can fill the cheap jobs internally (actually good for equality, but we don't really care about that).

Obviously climate is more important than the economy - but the economy is a pretty big thing for a politician to willfully mess up. I think you do your argument a disservice by suggesting the only issues are corruption and lobbying.

BTW - countries can "commit" to lots of things.

Akrasia · 03-01-2025 12:30PM

We can and do use the EU's economic power to drive sustainability standards without banning imports of any necessary goods that would harm our economic growth. (I think we should do more, and even if there is economic impacts, it is sometimes a price worth paying in the process of achieving bigger aims)

Eg, in 2024 the EU introduced a ban on any goods that were produced using forced labour. This is a very welcome step and we should do everything we can to ensure it is enforced successfully.

Just a few days ago, the deforestation regulations came into effect that bans the import of products that are produced at the cost of deforestation and it puts a requirement that producers must prove that any soy, beef, palm oil, timber, cocoa, and coffee used in their products are not causing deforestation (legal or illegal) in the supply chain. It is up to member states to enforce these regulations, but now there is a mechanism for companies to be challenged and severely fined if there is any evidence that they are profiting from deforestation in their supply chain)

The EU also offers preferential trading rights to LDCs that meet minimum standards for human rights, using the EBA agreements that can be revoked if the countries fail to meet those human rights standards (eg, Cambodia lost access recently for failing to comply)

EU single market rules also require certain standards in agriculture, manufacturing, emissions standards and quality control for items for sale within the EU SM. If household appliances do not meet minimum energy efficiency standards, they can't be sold here.

I am basically calling for the EU's Circular Economy Action Plan to be expanded. fast tracked and implemented as a matter of urgency. It won't fix imports not destined for the EU, but it will set a standard that others can follow, and due to the size of the EU single market, it can set a floor for internationally traded commodities as retaining access to this market might be seen as a minimum requirement in complex supply chains.

As well as this, further focus should be put on schemes like the Global Alliance on Circular Economy and Resource Efficiency (GACERE) to reach international agreements on sustainable production and trade.

We cannot directly control places like the US, India and China, but we can use our place in the EU to influence them through controlling access to our lucrative single market.

helimachoptor · 03-01-2025 02:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123012040#Comment_123012040

Science bro!
In all seriousness, we can cloud seed now, while i dont think we can fully control everything, I think we'll be able to influence it greatly, and yes there some extrapolation involved. I think even if we solved global warming now, the desire to control the weather will still be there.

Tony EH · 03-01-2025 04:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000704#Comment_123000704

They'll fucking care when the shit gets real. But that's the real problem with too many people isn't it? They don't give a damn so long as they, themselves, aren't affected and they'll only start pricking up their ears when reality lands on their doorstep.

Personally I don't really know that much about this issue, so I cannot give any kind of informed opinion on it and far too many clowns have made this a stupid battleground. However, I'd follow what Christopher Hitchens said about global warming and mankind's possible impact upon it. We should treat it as if it's a real danger. Because we don't have another planet on which to run the experiment twice.

Akrasia · 03-01-2025 04:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123013133#Comment_123013133

There is no way artificial geoengineering should be a part of the planned solution to climate change. If we do end up trying to geo-engineer climate change, it will only be because we have utterly failed to control it and geoengineering is the last resort.

There are several problems with geo-engineering. Firstly, even if we can do it, there will be unforeseen consequences. Secondly, it only masks the problem, and the underlying causes of climate change would see a rapid warming event if for some reason the geo-engineering solution had to be paused.

Controlling the weather is different to influencing the weather. We can influence the weather right now, through cloud seeding like you've mentioned, but also through changes to land use. If we plant more trees, temperatures will fall in summer locally and regionally and also result in more rainfall.

Akrasia · 03-01-2025 04:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123013355#Comment_123013355

Yeah. What we are doing now, is fundamentally altering the composition of our atmosphere. Doubling the concentration of CO2 will have serious consequences, only the wilfully ignorant amongst us can deny this.

But like you said, many many people don't care about any problem unless it is staring them right in the eye.

People will ignore their own health, their own relationships, their own financial situation until the moment when it all comes crashing down at which point they'll feel very sorry for themselves and regret not having done anything earlier to prevent it.

It's a big part of human psychology that we are so good at ignoring the problems of tomorrow in favour of the pleasures (or a different set of problems) of today.

It takes a shift in mindset to live sustainably, both in your own personal life, as well as globally, and this is incompatible with an economic system that is driven by marketing and manufacturing demand for instant gratification at all times.

cdeb · 03-01-2025 04:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123013133#Comment_123013133

Cloud seeding?!

Hallelujah, we're saved!

Because of something that has nothing to do with anything.

Your view is based purely in fantasy unfortunately

Hamsterchops · 03-01-2025 05:31PM

Bloody freezing today 🥶

cdeb · 03-01-2025 06:14PM

Ah, that old classic.

Because a 1.5 degree worldwide average temperature increase of course means it can never be cold in Ireland again.

Honest to God like.

helimachoptor · 03-01-2025 06:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123013474#Comment_123013474

So cloud seeding has nothing to do with controlling the weather? Someone better tell the Arabs that.

Seth Brundle · 03-01-2025 11:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123013666#Comment_123013666

Tell us in three words that you know FA about the topic of climate change! 😎

These Are Facts · 03-01-2025 11:43PM

If the concern is for CO2, simply plant trees, job done.
Then wait for the advent of self enhancing AI to solve the riddle of cold nuclear fusion (or better).

The leaves of growing trees absorb atmospheric carbon dioxide, releasing oxygen and locking up the carbon until the tree eventually dies and, decays, or is burnt. Some of the carbon from falling leaves enters the woodland soil and is stored there for the long term, making the entire woodland ecosystem an important carbon store.

Ireland has the lowest tree cover in Europe, aside from tiny island states such as Malta.

cdeb · 04-01-2025 08:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123013875#Comment_123013875

Tell me how cloud seeding has anything to do with addressing the impact of carbon emissions and we can discuss it then.

Making it rain in a very specific area is completely different from reducing warming effects over an entire planet.

cdeb · 04-01-2025 08:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123015174#Comment_123015174

Plant trees and then wait for some technological advance, job done?

We really are doomed as a species when you read threads like this.

Yes, planting trees is part of the solution - stopping chopping them down in swathes in the first place would be even better - and yes, Ireland is particularly bad in that regard.

But it's dangerously naive to think it's all that needs to be done.

helimachoptor · 04-01-2025 12:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123015592#Comment_123015592

I didnt say it did, what i said was we have already exhibited some ability to control the weather with cloud seeding, while it may not meet you definition of weather control, making it rain in an arrid area like UAE seems a like its a little bit of control.

Given we've had the desire and ability to do that, it's reasonable to assume that given how important mitigating carbon build up is, the will to develop that technology is there, whether we can actually do it "in time" is another questions.

cdeb · 04-01-2025 01:45PM

Again, it is massively different making rain in one specific spot compared to reducing warming effects over an entire planet. I don't know why you think they're remotely comparable.

Carbon capture is a technology, but is so nascent and so small-scale that it is nowhere near being anything other than a very small part of the solution.

These Are Facts · 04-01-2025 02:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123015596#Comment_123015596

For Ireland anyway (lowest tree coverage in the EU) planting trees (fast growing broadleaf), should have been an obvious priority many, many decades ago. Highly effective at reducing Co2. Instead empty fields, and now the proposed culling of 100,000 cows (while importing beef from Brazil) to save the planet isn't.

Ireland has few sizable national parks, even compared to the uk's, with x10 the populaiton.

England: 10 National Parks cover 9.3% of the land area. Wales: 3 National Parks cover 19.9.% of the land area Scotland: 2 National Parks cover 7.2% of the land area

Technology will develop very quickly in the coming years, tidal is in it's infancy, solar effectiveness increases each year, cold fusion is the only golden ticket to aspire to, advances in ai quantum based problem solving will propose the solution.

satguy · 04-01-2025 02:19PM

My BBQ went unused in 24,, It was all in all, a chilly & dull auld year.

Let just hope that 25 is a wee bit warmer.

j62 · 04-01-2025 02:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123013399#Comment_123013399

And there we have again, religion over pragmatism

Humans have been “geo engineering” the planet for thousands of years

cdeb · 04-01-2025 05:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123016511#Comment_123016511

Trees here will help, but not as much or as quickly as you seem to think "Simply plant trees, job done" - not true.

New energy technology has been talked about for ages but is still a long way off taking over - especially as it has to keep up with the demand for new energy (electric cars the obvious example, but also the increase in flying, where electric is a long way off giving a solution.

And yes, the proposed cull of the herd is silly for the reasons you note.

Ultimately though, why go on about the future when you could address and reduce your carbon footprint now?

j62 · 04-01-2025 06:39PM

Planting trees is a form of geo engineering, can’t have that /s

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Green_Wall_%28Africa%29

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Green_Wall_%28China%29

monseiur · 04-01-2025 07:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123016511#Comment_123016511

Do you seriously believe that if we planted a few extra trees it would make a difference to global warming/climate change or whatever the current trendy phrase is ? The truth is that even if the whole of our tiny island was denuded of all it's population and planted with trees, so that a monkey could swing from tree to tree from the Giants Causeway to Kinsale without touching terra firma , it would not make an iota of difference.

We are just a tiny rocky outcrop in the north Atlantic but sadly some of us think that we rule the world, others want us to be best boy in the class in the eyes of the EU and others…….so - Some deluded politicians who were in power until recently were (and still are) convinced that by re wetting a few fields, reducing the no. of stock and general farm output, crippling the hard pressed worker with extra carbon tax, stopping the harvesting of peat moss, stopping the construction of a few new roads etc. etc. would save the planet. You just could not make it up !

Perhaps some one should educate those deluded folk that the carbon footprint of beef imported from South America to EU is a teeeeeeeeeeny bit higher than beef produced in the EU. That the carbon footprint of say a 1000 tons of peat moss produced in eastern Europe and transported by road across Europe to Ireland is off the scale if compared with the same product produced at home. I could go on and on but the moral of the story is that we all live on the one planet and exporting a problem is not a solution it's make-believe.

These Are Facts · 08-01-2025 10:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123018021#Comment_123018021

Planting trees in Ireland (ideally decades ago) would have, and will solve all of Ireland's carbon targets along with other efforts. Not the World's. Nothing done in Ireland will capture all the World's CO2, doh.

Currently at 1-2% woodland coverage, compared to 13% in UK, and 33% in Europe, it's clear for anyone to see the long-term failure.

Tree's also:

Prevent flooding
Reduce city temperature
Reduce pollution
Keep soil nutrient-rich
Increase native species

Wind turbines are fine, but require plenty of maintenance, have a limtied life span, and become non-cost effective after around 15yrs, then the fiberglass arms can't be disposed of. Expedited research and use of 24/7 Tidal would be better in the long term. Solar at 53oN is only partly effective. Technology will bring other, newer solutions before too long.

Thelonious Monk · 09-01-2025 12:12AM

to reduce emissions globally and treat the environment in a way that we can allow it to heal and keep intact what we already have, it would mean the world working together, and people in rich countries like ireland consuming far less, changing how we live, how we eat, travel etc. we're too short sighted and greedy for this to ever happen. we'll continue on as is, consuming as much as possible like maniacs, until stuff becomes more scarce and then we'll blame someone else and wars will kick off all over the place. if you think humanity has the capability to drastically change how we live and think you're mad. enjoy the world how it is now while you can.

2024 will certainly be the hottest year on record. We're shooting past 1.5c ahead of schedule

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