Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The Truth: The Mathematical Proof of God, The Holy Trinity

2456

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,736 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    You are making the age old human error of trying to find meaning in coincidence.

    We (for all intents and purposes re statistical maths and probability), live in an infinite universe.

    In an infinite universe, there are infinite chances of coincidences.

    There are more than likely countless planets in the universe with similar size ratios to their stars and moons.

    But to give you the benefit of the doubt, lets say you are correct. Intelligent design exists and that's why we have eclipses.

    If a god exists and he designed solar and lunar eclipses to be a thing, then you'd imagine they'd play a massive part in his religious following. Why else would they happen?

    Are eclipses a big part of Christianity? No, they're not. On the flip side, eclipses played a part in many pagan belief systems.

    Why would an intelligent, Christian designer god create a planet that's perfectly aligned for solar and lunar eclipses when they serve no purpose in his religion. And not only that, lead people astray and to false religion?

    Or are you another one who's inadvertently 'proving' other religions to be true and not your own one?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    You are making the age old human error of trying to find meaning in coincidence

    Or, more cynically, searching for co-incidences to support an entirely unevidenced belief system.

    Why would an intelligent, Christian designer god create a planet that's perfectly aligned for solar and lunar eclipses when they serve no purpose in his religion.

    Worth pointing out that intelligent design does not in any way support the notion of Christian god. There are an infinite number of other potential intelligent design options, limited only by our own imagination. For example, we could all be living in a huge computer simulation, as per The Matrix. Or the known universe could have been sneezed out of the nose of the Great Green Arkelseizure. That's before going near the myriad of other mythological belief systems and creation stories different parts of humanity has favoured throughout history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,736 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Oh 100% re intelligent design - I am completely assuming anyone on here arguing for intelligent design is a Christian (particularly given the subject of the thread).

    Perhaps I am incorrect, in which case, apologies to the poster I quoted!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian


    Numerology and its its cognitive ilk is a natural human tendency to find meaningful patterns in the world around us, lending itself to beliefs in conspiracy and supernatural agency. The overall cognitive tendency is called apophenia. All of us are prone to it, some more than others.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54 ✭✭These Are Facts


    re: "or example, we could all be living in a huge computer simulation, as per The Matrix. "

    Indeed, and such a computer simulation would clearly need an technical author, code programmer I.e. One that could be would be deemed a creator type God.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,903 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    But by definition such a designer (should one exist) exists outside our universe and is unknown, and unknowable, to us.

    A deistic creator is at least kind of plausible. A theistic creator is not.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 kingiyk


    "So, which bible are you settling on then? There are many to choose from."

    I Tell you, The Bible with 66 books is The True Word of God. As The Proof shows with edifying evidence.

    "Is it intelligent design? Or is it a series of patterns that emerge due to the basic make up of things?"

    Do not just settle with the ""How" of things, but ponder upon the "Why?" Only then will Truth be revealed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 kingiyk


    Skim through The Proof and presenting flaws found, if possible, that is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 kingiyk


    Then you wouldn't mind me chopping of your little finger.😎



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 kingiyk




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 kingiyk


    The Proof is backed up by The Word of God, The Bible, not by the Hindu texts . As indicated at every segment of The Proof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 kingiyk


    However, when such coincidences prove consistent and coherent over several segments, as indicated in The Proof, One should learn to acknowledge it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,903 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    My appendix might not be all that useful but I'm not going to go through surgery unless I have a good reason. You're dodging the points I and others have raised and falling back on the assertion of "The Truth", as you may have already noticed that sort of thing is not found convincing by very many around these parts.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,903 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,903 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    What sort of god would allow a billion (mostly) well-meaning Hindus to lead themselves into such error and then punish them for it?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Agreed, just pointing out that the notion of Intelligent Design put forward by Christian (pseudo-)Scientists is a just a single example of the enormous set of possible intelligent design scenarios that we might imagine. All of these fall into the range of speculative fiction to absurd fantasy. The fact that we can disprove any of these unevidenced hypotheses doesn't in itself lend them any credibility. The fact that a given group of people, such as Christian Scientists, have a deep seated desire for their particular story to be true, and push it hard on that basis, is an example of cognitive bias that actually undermines their credibility.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Ok, so lets break down what is being claimed here;

    1. The bible, a work of some 783,137 words in the King James version, contains a number of numerical patterns that share the number 3 as a factor or root.
    2. This is so statistically unlikely it could not happen randomly
    3. The authors of the text could not have added such patterns by design
    4. Therefore the only possible explanation is divine inspiration by the God referred to in the bible hence this God must exist

    For this to approximate any kind of proof, you'd need the following supporting proofs

    1. No other work of similar or lesser length, authored and transcribed by a similar or fewer number of people over a similar or shorter period of time, contains similar patterns
    2. Any random collection of paragraphs in the English language amounting to roughly 783 thousand words would not contain a similar number of patterns
    3. The authors of the bible did not knowingly insert such patterns into the text

    Now given that you're the one claiming the document you've provided constitutes a proof, the burden of proving this lies with you. It would be useful if you could come back to us with this information that supports your proof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian


    Ah, here.  My whole point concerns acknowledging that coincidences that prove consistent and coherent should be acknowledged, but that they exist through the natural act of cognition. For materialists and naturalists, the world and its mysteries – in the end - have perfectly natural and rational explanations, i.e., rooted in natural rather than supernatural explanations (rather than physicalists - you can be a scientist and use this empirical process, and still have supernatural beliefs). The humility here is that mysteries remaining are simply those that can’t be figured out by our limited minds, rather than resorting to the ‘The God of the gaps’. This is simply psychological faith in there being only a natural world, and not a supernatural one (faith, rather than Faith). The onus on naturalists to explain the way the world happens to be is much harder than for those that don’t subscribe to the metaphysical principle of Occam’s Razor, because otherwise the typical trump card, such as in theism, is the soothing balm of explaining how everything mysterious and inexplicable is explainable -  as “God did it”. It is soothing to think that mere mortals can never comprehend the real reasons behind actions that deities could have prevented, as Job’s story preaches, but that's a psychological need, not a metaphysical fact.

    Confusion and doubt can thus be assuaged. Finding proof in numerology is not proof of deities - only a repetition of Aeschylus’ observation well over 2000 years ago: "The man who seeks for God, finds him." You see what you want to see. Cognition does the rest as imagination, and a fear of the death of an imaginary soul.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    I present The Truth: The Mathematical Proof of The One True God

    As smacl correctly points out, there's a long history of religious people fiddling with numbers, then 'finding' their god when they put down their pencil. I wish you nothing but the very best with your strange beliefs and can only point out two items: a) how nice it is to see, in the final sentence of the first paragraph, somebody trying to reignite the splendid fourth-century homoousios vs homoiousios debate! b) that 'deity' is spelled 'deity' and not 'diety', which word ineluctably puts me in mind of an overweight god, which I suppose an infinite one, made of three infinite parts, probably would be.

    Sidney Harris seems appropriate at this point:

    miracle-occurs.gif


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    [smacl] To be clear 0 is the first whole number whereas 1 is the first natural number.

    That position is open to debate - Peano stated in his first axiom, that zero is a natural number, and having assumed that and eight further axioms, deduced so many useful things that many modern mathematicians, especially those involved with set theory, agree with his statement.

    Unhappily, Peano's first axiom is conventionally numbered '1' rather than '0', but not being a C or C++ programmer, one could perhaps forgive him that momentary lapse.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 kingiyk


    It is disingenuous to over-simplify the Proof as you did, deliberately turning a blind eye to the 7 consistent claims made all through the Proof and providing no direct critique of any.

    "

    1. No other work of similar or lesser length, authored and transcribed by a similar or fewer number of people over a similar or shorter period of time, contains similar patterns"

    There is a God who revealed himself with a Triune nature. The Proof reveals how unexplainable mathematical phenomenon (the recurring sequence of 369; derived from the Trinity of Numbers; see Proof for full illustration) proves This specific God to be The One True God. This specific God is The only God whose nature is ingrained into the language of The Universe; Mathematics.

    "2. Any random collection of paragraphs in the English language amounting to roughly 783 thousand words would not contain a similar number of patterns"

    The Proof is a unification of Mathematics and the divine Word of God. You could write a random collection of paragraphs in the English language amounting to roughly 783 thousand words but does it align with the Prophesied Word of God?

    "3. The authors of the bible did not knowingly insert such patterns into the text"

    The fulfilment of biblical prophecies has stripped any writer(s) of the right to lay claim to the words contained in the bible.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    There is a God who revealed himself with a Triune nature. The Proof reveals how unexplainable mathematical phenomenon (the recurring sequence of 369; derived from the Trinity of Numbers; see Proof for full illustration) proves This specific God to be The One True God. This specific God is The only God whose nature is ingrained into the language of The Universe; Mathematics.

    The above clearly illustrates why your proof is bogus, it is a logical tautology. It starts with the assumption that God exists and uses this assumption as part of the proof that God exists.

    Finding a few fun mathematical sequences in a piece of text, such as you list in your document, in no way proves the veracity of anything else claimed to be true in the same text. I'm rather baffled as to why you think one proves the other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭hello2020


    Does your first statement not self contradictory "the one true god" which then changes to 3 !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian


    The logical tautology has a psychological context of nihilistic dread, and the need to find meaning where none exists. The human capacity to fool ourselves means the use of logic does not necessarily result in a logical argument, particularly when commitment to a certain metaphysical world-view obscures this. This of course applies to naturalists as well as supernaturalists, but at least naturalists (should) stick to Occam's Razor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,736 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    You're now just doing that all to common circular reasoning that people of faith do. It means nothing to anyone but people of your faith. It's just bad logic.

    I'll give you an example to show you what I mean and the absurdity of the logic you are using.

    Person of faith: 'Theres a cat living on Mars who created the earth and humanity, he's called The Great Purr-ator'

    Skeptic: 'How do you know this?'

    Person of Faith: 'Because thousands of years ago, The Great Purr-ator left us an amazing book, it describes how he created us and our meaning on this earth'

    Skeptic: 'But how do you know the book he left us is true and not just made up gibberish?'

    Person of faith: I know it is true because it was written by the Great Purr-ator'

    Skeptic: 'But how do you know The Great Purr-ator is real, lives on Mars and created humanity?'

    Person of Faith: 'Because thousands of years ago, The Great Purr-ator left us an amazing book, it describes how he created us and our meaning on this earth'

    Ad nauseum. Round and round we go in circles, with no actual proof outside of your faith. It's meaningless.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Long time C and C++ programmer here, where we do indeed index things from zero. Previously, I used to work in Pascal where you could index things however you wanted to, using integers, sets or other ordinal types, e.g

    var   
      n: array [-7..10] of integer;
    

    Both have there advantages and disadvantages. We tend to correlate the word first with the number one, using abbreviations such as 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. So long as this remains the case, we're likely to continue to number things from 1 rather than 0 outside of programming and maths.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 kingiyk


    I have been unsuccessful in my search for an individual who could find a flaw in The Proof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian


    Something tells me you never ever will, but not because it's flawless.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Likely because you haven't managed to convince anyone here that there is any substance in your claims. As per the first reply to your post, you might have more luck in the conspiracy theories forums, or perhaps the Christianity forum.



Advertisement