Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

The Truth: The Mathematical Proof of God, The Holy Trinity

2»

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 kingiyk


    It is disingenuous to over-simplify the Proof as you did, deliberately turning a blind eye to the 7 consistent claims made all through the Proof and providing no direct critique of any.

    "

    1. No other work of similar or lesser length, authored and transcribed by a similar or fewer number of people over a similar or shorter period of time, contains similar patterns"

    There is a God who revealed himself with a Triune nature. The Proof reveals how unexplainable mathematical phenomenon (the recurring sequence of 369; derived from the Trinity of Numbers; see Proof for full illustration) proves This specific God to be The One True God. This specific God is The only God whose nature is ingrained into the language of The Universe; Mathematics.

    "2. Any random collection of paragraphs in the English language amounting to roughly 783 thousand words would not contain a similar number of patterns"

    The Proof is a unification of Mathematics and the divine Word of God. You could write a random collection of paragraphs in the English language amounting to roughly 783 thousand words but does it align with the Prophesied Word of God?

    "3. The authors of the bible did not knowingly insert such patterns into the text"

    The fulfilment of biblical prophecies has stripped any writer(s) of the right to lay claim to the words contained in the bible.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    There is a God who revealed himself with a Triune nature. The Proof reveals how unexplainable mathematical phenomenon (the recurring sequence of 369; derived from the Trinity of Numbers; see Proof for full illustration) proves This specific God to be The One True God. This specific God is The only God whose nature is ingrained into the language of The Universe; Mathematics.

    The above clearly illustrates why your proof is bogus, it is a logical tautology. It starts with the assumption that God exists and uses this assumption as part of the proof that God exists.

    Finding a few fun mathematical sequences in a piece of text, such as you list in your document, in no way proves the veracity of anything else claimed to be true in the same text. I'm rather baffled as to why you think one proves the other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭hello2020


    Does your first statement not self contradictory "the one true god" which then changes to 3 !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian


    The logical tautology has a psychological context of nihilistic dread, and the need to find meaning where none exists. The human capacity to fool ourselves means the use of logic does not necessarily result in a logical argument, particularly when commitment to a certain metaphysical world-view obscures this. This of course applies to naturalists as well as supernaturalists, but at least naturalists (should) stick to Occam's Razor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,952 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    You're now just doing that all to common circular reasoning that people of faith do. It means nothing to anyone but people of your faith. It's just bad logic.

    I'll give you an example to show you what I mean and the absurdity of the logic you are using.

    Person of faith: 'Theres a cat living on Mars who created the earth and humanity, he's called The Great Purr-ator'

    Skeptic: 'How do you know this?'

    Person of Faith: 'Because thousands of years ago, The Great Purr-ator left us an amazing book, it describes how he created us and our meaning on this earth'

    Skeptic: 'But how do you know the book he left us is true and not just made up gibberish?'

    Person of faith: I know it is true because it was written by the Great Purr-ator'

    Skeptic: 'But how do you know The Great Purr-ator is real, lives on Mars and created humanity?'

    Person of Faith: 'Because thousands of years ago, The Great Purr-ator left us an amazing book, it describes how he created us and our meaning on this earth'

    Ad nauseum. Round and round we go in circles, with no actual proof outside of your faith. It's meaningless.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Long time C and C++ programmer here, where we do indeed index things from zero. Previously, I used to work in Pascal where you could index things however you wanted to, using integers, sets or other ordinal types, e.g

    var   
      n: array [-7..10] of integer;
    

    Both have there advantages and disadvantages. We tend to correlate the word first with the number one, using abbreviations such as 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. So long as this remains the case, we're likely to continue to number things from 1 rather than 0 outside of programming and maths.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 kingiyk


    I have been unsuccessful in my search for an individual who could find a flaw in The Proof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian


    Something tells me you never ever will, but not because it's flawless.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Likely because you haven't managed to convince anyone here that there is any substance in your claims. As per the first reply to your post, you might have more luck in the conspiracy theories forums, or perhaps the Christianity forum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,952 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    The religion you've based your thesis on is flawed to begin with. Everything else that follows, be it bible numerology or other fringe mysticism is automatically incorrect.

    There's your flaw.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 kingiyk


    This is The gist of The Proof.

    A God revealed himself to be The Beginning and The End - (Revelation 22:13).

    The same God revealed himself to be One(1) and a Trinity(333) - 1 John 5:7

    I employed the trinity of numbers to show that God to be the One True God(OTG) -

    1 2345678 9(333)

    God is The beginning(1) and He is The End 9(3 3 3)Trinity.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    So your proof seeks to demonstrate that God is the One True God. Before doing this, you first need to prove that God actually exists, then you need to prove that the text you have taken from the Christian bible is derived entirely from divine inspiration in the English translation you've used. You have taken a few rather massive leaps of faith there. Out of interest, have you checked if your mathematical correlations also work for the bible in its original languages of Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew? It would seem rather odd if they only work in a much later specific English translation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 kingiyk


    "So your proof seeks to demonstrate that God is the One True God. Before doing this, you first need to prove that God actually exists"

    If I successfully illustrate a God to be the One True God, then I have simultaneously proven the existence of God.

    "then you need to prove that the text you have taken from the Christian bible is derived entirely from divine inspiration in the English translation you've used."

    The Power of Prophecy is the one attribute that separates the One True God(OTG) from the false gods. The Holy Bible is lithered with fulfilled prophecies, establishing it has the words of The OTG.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian


    This is the gist of why you are barking up the wrong metaphysical tree here. The arguments you have built around mathematical patterns are linked to your belief in divine revelations. Atheists, with their a-theism stance, have no beliefs in any such links. No amount of logical steps or reasoning can convince an atheist of such a supernatural metaphysical link. Regardless of rigorous logic, there is no belief that it can be supernaturally framed.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,952 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Sorry but that literally makes no sense to anyone but you.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Long time C and C++ programmer here, where we do indeed index things from zero. Previously, I used to work in Pascal where you could index things however you wanted to, using integers, sets or other ordinal types, e.g

    As you say, Pascal is kind enough to see your upper and lower bounds and adjust the actual index accordingly - while C++, since I think since C++1998, has allowed you to override the array operator so you can index into single-index arrays any way you like, at the cost of adding a member function.

    [smacl] We tend to correlate the word first with the number one, using abbreviations such as 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc

    Sometimes not - in English, a building's "first floor" is the second level, while in Russian, the "first floor" is ground level.

    Out of interest, have you checked if your mathematical correlations also work for the bible in its original languages of Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew? It would seem rather odd if they only work in a much later specific English translation.

    kingiyk's numerological ramblings have the benefit of being short - but they're just the start. There have been much more involved "bible codes" of one kind or another since, like, forever and people have used them to prove all kinds of deities, prophesies, revelations and so on. The usual method is to pick your religion, then pick your religious text, then spray it with numbers until your desired proof arrives. If memory serves, it was called theomatics for a while and, who knows, maybe it still is.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 kingiyk


    "Sometimes not - in English, a building's "first floor" is the second level, while in Russian, the "first floor" is ground level."

    It remains that you have 10 fingers on both your hands. And that's because 1 is the beginning number.

    "kingiyk's numerological ramblings have the benefit of being short - but they're just the start. There have been much more involved "bible codes" of one kind or another since, like, forever and people have used them to prove all kinds of deities, prophesies, revelations and so on. The usual method is to pick your religion, then pick your religious text, then spray it with numbers until your desired proof arrives. If memory serves, it was called theomatics for a while and, who knows, maybe it still is."

    None has ever fixed The Crucifixion Cross into a time clock as was illustrated in The Proof. This is The Truth which has been presented to you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 kingiyk


    Mathematics was discovered, not invented. The Proof provides clarity on why some Mathematical laws are. This laws were not designed by man. The Purpose of Man is to find an explanation for this laws and The Proof presented here does just that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 kingiyk


    The words of an individual who finds the proof compelling but has no profound rebuttal for it.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian


    This is the gist of why you are barking up the wrong metaphysical tree here. The arguments you have built around mathematical patterns are linked to your belief in divine revelations. Atheists, with their a-theism stance, have no beliefs in any such links. No amount of logical steps or reasoning can convince an atheist of such a supernatural metaphysical link. Regardless of rigorous logic, there is no belief that it can be supernaturally framed.

    … and so on in an infinite loop.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Mod note: Please avoid making claims about understanding the minds of any other poster here. I consider this trolling and will deal with it accordingly if repeated.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    It remains that you have 10 fingers on both your hands. And that's because 1 is the beginning number.

    Yes indeed, but it was smacl's point, and mine by implication, that if you start counting at a different number, then you end up in a different place.

    There's also the well-known proof, the full sum of whose totality this thread is probably too small to contain, regarding the actual number of fingers on a hand. But in summary - say you start counting at ten on the thumb of your right hand, then move left, one finger at a time, subtracting one for each finger. You'll reach the little finger on your right hand having reached six, indicating that there are actually six fingers on your right hand. The same logic applies to your left hand, proving that people actually have twelve fingers in total and not ten.

    None has ever fixed The Crucifixion Cross into a time clock as was illustrated in The Proof. This is The Truth which has been presented to you.

    A quick google indicates there are plenty of crucifixion crosses pictured in a time clock - but oddly, I can't seem to find one where the time is indicated by the cross's upper crossbar - one could easily imagine a timeclock with hours indicated by the usual left-crossbar rotating through 360 degrees, and minutes by the right crossbar rotating, each one taking Jesus left or right arms for a sweep around the face - seems like a market opportunity for some enterprising timeclockmaker!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 kingiyk


    "proving that people actually have twelve fingers in total and not ten."

    Yes, twelve if you count the two invisible fingers on the left.

    "A quick google indicates there are plenty of crucifixion crosses pictured in a time clock"

    Within the context of a Proof, I mean.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Within the context of a Proof, I mean.

    A clock's display is proof that it's the time that the clock thinks it is.

    QED.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    My understanding of mathematics is that it is simply a concise language which can be used to describe that which we observe, or that which we imagine or invent. Some good recent examples of the latter would be the cryptography used in blockchain and the calculus underlying convolution neural nets. By your definitions this would have Bitcoin and ChatGPT as divine works just awaiting our discovery. Kind of surprising that if God was hiding complex numerical patterns in the bible to demonstrate his divinity, the best sums he could manage were a little but of addition and multiplication, i.e. the kind of simple maths contemporary to those transcribing the bibles text, as opposed to something that demonstrated more advanced abilities pertinent to a more mathematically advanced society. You'd think he could have at least managed a bit of public key encryption or some-such.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 kingiyk


    Definition of Concepts:

    The Holy Trinity:A single God existing as three identical entities. In the concept of The Trinity, Three and One are the same.

    Trinity of Numbers:A single number existing as three identical entities.

    Digital Root:
    The single digit and ultimate unit number derived by the iterative process of summing the individual digits of a number.

         ILLUSTRATIONS
    

    2023 » 2 + 0 + 2 + 3 = 7
    30 » 3 + 0 = 3
    1191993 » 1+1+9+1+9+9+3 = 33 » 3 + 3 = 6

    The Proof is comprised of 7 segments:

    1.) The Magnificence of 3,6,9: The Trinity of Numbers: Proves The Holy Trinity to be True by way of Mathematics

    2.) Time & Space: Proves The Triune God to be The creator of Time, Space, and The Universe

    3.)The Word: Proves The Bible to be The Word of God

    4 & 5.) The Image and The Earth: Proves The Triune God is The Creator of Man and all living creatures

    6.) Order & Peace: Proves the orderly nature of The Triune God as revealed in The scriptures.

    7.) The First & The Last: Proves The Triune God is who He says He is.

    All segments answer the questions Man has pondered upon, especially on origin and purpose.

    The Proof begins by deriving the Holy Trinity (3 3 3) through the Trinity of Numbers then proceeds to illustrate how The Holy Trinity (3 3 3) proves consistent in all 7 segments.

    1.) The Magnificence of 3,6,9: The Trinity of Numbers:

    The Digital Root of any Trinity of Numbers united into an integer is either 3, 6 , or 9.

    111 » 1 + 1 + 1 = 3
    222 » 2 + 2 + 2 = 6
    333 » 3 + 3 + 3 = 9

    444 » 4 + 4 + 4 = 12 » 1 + 2 = 3
    555 » 5 + 5 + 5 = 15 » 1 + 5 = 6
    666 » 6 + 6 + 6 = 18 » 1 + 8 = 9

    777 » 7 + 7 + 7 = 21 » 2 + 1 = 3
    888 » 8 + 8 + 8 = 24 » 2 + 4 =6
    999 » 9 + 9 + 9 = 27 » 2 + 7 = 9

    The recurring sequence 3 6 9 is magnificent for its representation of
    The Truth: THE HOLY TRINITY !!! 3 3 3

    3, 6, and 9 are part of the sequence of numbers obtained by adding 3 repeatedly

    3 + 3 (6) + 3 (9) | 3 3 3 (See Proof for full illustration)

    The Holy Trinity is assigned the numerical value
    3 3 3 and Satan is self-assigned 6 6 6.[Revelation 13:18]
    When you incorporate Isaiah 14:14 [which states: "I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High"] into this wonder, the reason for Satan's choice of 6 6 6 becomes overly glaring: He aims to be like God.

    Romans 5:6: "For while we were still weak, at the right TIME Christ died for the ungodly."

    When The Cross is fixed into a Time Clock, the co-ordinates are 3 6 9 and 12. The Cross is comprised of three entities:
    3, 6, 9 - each representing an entity of the Trinity respectively, and a single head that unifies all three (The GodHead\God = 12; 1 Corinthians 11:3).

    God is an ULTIMATE UNIT existing in eternity as Three distinct Entities in The Name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.

    When all three entities are united to become an ULTIMATE UNIT(a single digit) by deriving the digital root of the sum and the digital root of the unifying Godhead\God is derived, the result is:

    The Father + The Son + The Holy Spirit =
    3 + 6 + 9 = 18 » 1 + 8 = 9

    God = 12 » 1 + 2 = 3

    The Father + The Son + The Holy Spirit = 9;
    God = 3

    The Resulting Numbers are 3 & 9

    9 is comprised of three 3s. 9 ≡ 3 3 3 i.e. a single God existing as three identical entities.

    9 represents the three members of the trinity and 3 represents God. It means there are three individuals who are God in 9-The Trinity.

    3 3 3; each 3 representing an entity of The Trinity:
    God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit

    2. ) TIME & SPACE

    The Earth is the Third of Nine Planets.

    The Resulting Numbers are 3 & 9.

    9 is comprised of three 3s: 3 3 3

    3) THE WORD

    The Bible is comprised of The New Testament and The Old Testament. The Old Testament is comprised of 39 books while The New Testament is comprised of 27 books.

    The New Testament : 27 (3 3 3)
    The Old Testament : 39 (3 and 9; 9 is comprised of three 3s; 333)

    4&5:) THE IMAGE AND THE EARTH

    Man was created in the image of God- A Trinity.

    When The Cross is fixed into a Time Clock, Man is depicted as having three distinct parts 1, 2, 3 ; reach represented by 3, 6, 9 respectively (see proof for full illustration)

    1 and 3 are the same (both hands)-a representation of The Holy Trinity.

    1 and 3 are also represented by 3 and 9 in the Time Clock; 9 is comprised of three 3s: 3 3 3 (See Proof for full illustration)

    6.) ORDER & PEACE [1 Corinthians 14:33]

    The Triune Number 9 acts as a guardian of order in the digital root system, providing structure, predictability, and balance.

    When a number is multiplied by 9, the digital root of the product will be 9.

    9 x 20 = 180; 1 + 8 + 0 = 9;
    9 x 30 = 270; 2 + 7 + 0 = 9;
    9 x 40 = 360; 3 + 6 + 0 = 9;

    9 is comprised of three 3s; 3 3 3

    7.) THE FIRST & THE LAST [Revelation 22:13]

    Man was designed to use the Base 10 Numeral System.

    Consisting of 10 digits:
    0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

    1 is The First or The Beginning Number and The Triune Number 9 is The Highest or The Last.

    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [3 3 3]

    ⇛God is The First and He is The Last.
    ⇛He is The Beginning and He is The End.
    ⇛He is One and He is a Trinity.

    There are 27 letters in the alphabets.
    A [1]

    B C D E F G H I J K
    L M N O P Q R
    S T U V W
    X Y Z

    &[27] (3 3 3)

    ⇛God is The Alpha & The Omega.
    ⇛He is The Beginning & The End.
    ⇛He is One and He is a Trinity.

    Put mind to task and examine the evidence. When done, you will be left with two choices: Proclaim this Proof to be The Truth or declare me The Greatest Mathematician The World has ever seen.

    Checkmate!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian


    This is the gist of why you are barking up the wrong metaphysical tree here. The arguments you have built around mathematical patterns are linked to your belief in divine revelations. Atheists, with their a-theism stance, have no beliefs in any such links. No amount of logical steps or reasoning can convince an atheist of such a supernatural metaphysical link. Regardless of rigorous logic, there is no belief that it can be supernaturally framed.

    … and so on in an infinite loop.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Put mind to task and examine the evidence. When done, you will be left with two choices: Proclaim this Proof to be The Truth or declare me The Greatest Mathematician The World has ever seen.

    Checkmate!!!

    I doubt you've actually managed to convince anyone here of your stated claims. If any other poster here who does not already believe in God finds some merit in your argument, or for that matter, is impressed by mathematical prowess, please do let us know.

    Note that simply repeating the same claims ad-nauseam constitutes soap-boxing and runs counter to the forum's charter. Should you wish to add anything new to your argument that you haven't already stated, please do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 kingiyk


    Th crux of The Matter remains:

    The Bible reveals a God who is Triune in Nature. By applying Mathematics and The Word of God, through a coherent and consistent demonstration of ideas, The Proof arrived at this equation:

    God + The Father + The Son + The Holy Spirit = God

    yet The Father + The Son + The Holy Spirit is not equal to zero;

    The Three Members of The Trinity are United as God

    As it was revealed in The Proof:

    The Father + The Son + The Holy Spirit = 9

    God = 3

    (See Proof for full illustrations)

    God + The Father + The Son + The Holy Spirit = God

    The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit exist as distinct yet coequal hypostases within the divine essence, such that their individual distinctions neither augment nor diminish the totality of God’s being, but rather subsist harmoniously within the indivisible unity of the Godhead. - The Trinity.

    An equation unlike any other.
    There is non like it.

    This is The God Equation. This is The Devine Equation.

    So, Here is the challenge I put forward to all family members:

    Through deductive, consistent and coherent reasoning, as demonstrated in this Proof, arrive at an equation like this

    (A + B + C + D = A) and you might begin to have a counter for this Proof and sway my beliefs.

    An aside: Any comment that strays from the essence of this challenge and resorts to veiled barbs will serve only to magnify the formidable nature of the challenge.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Mod: kingiyk carded for soap-boxing after being warned not to. Copying and pasting large tracts of text that you've already posted here or elsewhere neither advances your argument nor is permitted here.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Why just one person that could be deemed a creator God? Why not a moderate sized team of programmers from Google or OpenAI running a moderately complex simulation? It doesn't have to be unreasonably complex as all it needs to have to model are the inputs, outputs and processes of just one virtual mind in a virtual environment. The programmers don't need to be omniscient or all that brilliant either, they merely need access to the collected code-base of their predecessors. If you allow for the possibility of an AI with any degree of simulated sentience, and you run that AI in a sandbox disconnected from the outside world, you have your Matrix. Still a fantasy of course, but nowhere near as far fetched as the notion of a Christian god.

    It is probably worth noting that we can develop rather simple programs that display emergent properties never conceived by the original programmer. Conway's game of life is a great example, which can be written in a page or two of code while having undecidable outcomes. Another fun one is Karpathy LLM, which implements ChatGPT-2 in just 1,000 lines of C, showing that we don't need super-computers and huge code-bases to achieve remarkable programming outcomes.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Conway's game of life is a great example, which can be written in a page or two of code while having undecidable outcomes.

    That's an interestingly debatable question. TEA can be written in (checks wikipage) 23 lines of C and, within reasonable limitations, is a pretty good encryption algorithm and produces outcomes which are undecidable for, I'd hazard a guess, most meanings of the word. But what does undecidability imply? I'm not sure, in this context, that it implies anything other than that TEA is a pretty good encryption algorithm.

    Another fun one is Karpathy LLM, which implements ChatGPT-2 in just 1,000 lines of C, showing that we don't need super-computers and huge code-bases to achieve remarkable programming outcomes.

    Also fascinating, but LLM's generally make me wonder not so much at the apparent smartness of small blocks of C or C++ code (granted, producing or consuming weights' files which drive the LLM), but whether so much of what we refer to as 'intelligence' actually requires much more than a neural weights' file and a small LLM up front. And while I wouldn't wish for one moment to appear to carp at a talented developer, I do have to point out that the Karpathy LLM #include's enough code within its header files that I can't help but wonder whether the author was more interested in a) producing something which he could plausibly, but falsely, claim took less than one thousand lines, or b) actually doing so.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    The point I was alluding to was that, contrary to the position held by many putting forward the idea of intelligent design, we don't need a great levels of design complexity to achieve a highly complex result. I find cellular automate fascinating in this regard, and similarly slime mold in the natural world, not to mention the wood wide web.

    I take your point regarding Karpathy and C headers, but what it illustrates is the complexity we can achieve through incremental additions to an existing code-base. This again runs contrary to the Christian Science Intelligent Design position which demands a single omniscient being as the creator. Instead we can use a series of moderately intelligent folk accumulating know-how over may generations. Upon the backs of greater nerds...



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


     we don't need a great levels of design complexity to achieve a highly complex result.

    I think it would be fairer to say that simple inputs can produce outputs which look complex, if one doesn't know how exactly they were made. And yes, slime mold - cool stuff!



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    I suppose this comes down to how you define complex. Once we start feeding back output as an input to a system, as in Conway's Life, and allow the results to tweak the behavioral rules going forward, as with many biological systems and self modifying automata, we can end up with more complex systems (or system collapse). This is the basis of evolution.

    What I find fascinating about Conway's Life is that it can be used to create a universal Turing machine, and hence run any other program in any other Turing complete programming language, such as our friend Karpathy's ChatGPT implementation in C. Much like the many headers in that implementation, this particular game of life is entirely dependent on the opening position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian


    The supposed mathematical proof of the triune god - of the Christian bible - is prized out of a supernatural metaphysical belief, coupled with a belief in revelation; separately and together meaning an atheist cannot even begin to entertain it. However, there is an interesting psychological and philosophical aspect to the notion of a specific mathematical triune. I have been toying with the idea of starting a thread for a long time in the Philosophy forum in relation to the philosophy and psychology of the triune conceptual nature of mathematics, but it recently struck me that it seems just as appropriate in this thread (and could still be struck up in the Philosophy forum):

    All of mathematics, and models of reality based on them, can be reduced to a triune folk-psychological understanding of how we represent the world on a conceptual continuum; as the triune of one, zero, and infinity. All permutations and combinations of mathematical concepts can stem from these three inter-related folk-psychological intuitional concepts.

    Everything under the sun can be conceived mathematically (as a natural psychological feature, without need of supernatural ones) using these three conceptually inter-related building-block intuitional concepts. Any amount of metaphysical beliefs (one, none, and infinite I suppose) can be attached to it, depending on imaginative you can be. It's just that to an atheist a supernatural aspect would be explanatorily superfluous/redundant.



Advertisement